palabras
Established
Hi all!
I need an advice about FSU cameras, because I'd like to buy one and know little about them.
What camera do you think is the best one to begin? I need it little, with an easy rangefinder (preferably different from the one of leica screwmount bodies and similar to the one of bessa R), maybe with a lightmeter, and very resistant to hurts.
A question: can these cameras use voigtlander lenses?
Thanks!
I need an advice about FSU cameras, because I'd like to buy one and know little about them.
What camera do you think is the best one to begin? I need it little, with an easy rangefinder (preferably different from the one of leica screwmount bodies and similar to the one of bessa R), maybe with a lightmeter, and very resistant to hurts.
A question: can these cameras use voigtlander lenses?
Thanks!
Spyderman
Well-known
FED 2, 3 or 5, Zorki 4, 6, Kiev. Get all of them
In the end you will end with all of them anyway If I should recommend just one, then FED 2 or Zorki 6. Ooops, that's 2
But of these 2 choose the one you like the best.FED 5, Kiev with meter (uncoupled and non-TTL)
FEDs and Zorkis can use LTM CV lenses, Kievs can use Contax-mount CV lenses.
palabras
Established
well, then ask your friend if he has a fed2 and a zorki6!!!
Michael I.
Well-known
I think the initial experience should be possitive so start with a CLA'd camera.
I recommend a zorki 4 - because of it's bright finder and full shutter speed range
I recommend a zorki 4 - because of it's bright finder and full shutter speed range
oscroft
Veteran
Hi palabras,
I'm really just a beginner with FSU cameras myself, but I'll offer a few thoughts.
Firstly, any of the screw mount FSU cameras should take the Voigtlander screw mount lenses (there can be alignment problems if you use the Voigtlander 15mm with its fixed small rectangular lens hood - because the screw thread doesn't stop at the same point, it ends up not being square. But then, I suspect a 15mm lens won't be one of your earliest concerns).
As for the first camera to try, I'd suggest a Zorki 4 or 4K. There were millions made and there are many available in excellent condition for low prices. They have very bright viewfinders, pretty decent rangefinders, and a full range of shutter speeds. It doesn't have a meter, but that's one less thing to go wrong - many of the selenium meters in old FSU cameras don't work properly any more.
I personally very much like the earlier Fed 2 models (but I only got mine 2 days ago, so I can't say how well it works yet), but you can't mount a Voigtlander viewfinder on them because the accessory shoe is too low behind the rangefinder housing - all you can use is the FSU turret finder. Some late Fed 2s have the shoe raised so you can fit Voigtlander viewfinders on them, but they're far less easier to find than a Zorki 4 or 4K.
But whichever you go for, I hope you enjoy it, but once you have one I hope you realise you'll want more
Best,
I'm really just a beginner with FSU cameras myself, but I'll offer a few thoughts.
Firstly, any of the screw mount FSU cameras should take the Voigtlander screw mount lenses (there can be alignment problems if you use the Voigtlander 15mm with its fixed small rectangular lens hood - because the screw thread doesn't stop at the same point, it ends up not being square. But then, I suspect a 15mm lens won't be one of your earliest concerns).
As for the first camera to try, I'd suggest a Zorki 4 or 4K. There were millions made and there are many available in excellent condition for low prices. They have very bright viewfinders, pretty decent rangefinders, and a full range of shutter speeds. It doesn't have a meter, but that's one less thing to go wrong - many of the selenium meters in old FSU cameras don't work properly any more.
I personally very much like the earlier Fed 2 models (but I only got mine 2 days ago, so I can't say how well it works yet), but you can't mount a Voigtlander viewfinder on them because the accessory shoe is too low behind the rangefinder housing - all you can use is the FSU turret finder. Some late Fed 2s have the shoe raised so you can fit Voigtlander viewfinders on them, but they're far less easier to find than a Zorki 4 or 4K.
But whichever you go for, I hope you enjoy it, but once you have one I hope you realise you'll want more
Best,
lubitel
Well-known
Michael I. said:
Yes, but you cannot appreciate the VF of Zorki 4 without first trying a Fed2.
Michael I.
Well-known
I tried to squint through the fed 2 - I didnt like - I liked the cameras size and ergnomics though.
I think the "Rick Oleson rf patch" makes life easier.
I also think the "fed" or any other non-vf-obtrusive hood is a good idea,also the lower half of the never ready case makes holding easier with sweaty palms.
I think the "Rick Oleson rf patch" makes life easier.
I also think the "fed" or any other non-vf-obtrusive hood is a good idea,also the lower half of the never ready case makes holding easier with sweaty palms.
pesphoto
Veteran
I love the look and feel of Fed2, but as others have said the VF is tough to see the entire image.
palabras
Established
then I'll go for a zorki4 (or 4k) plus a jupiter8 and 9. Is it a good kit to begin?
A question: how much does the zorki 4 weigh? And which are the differences between zorki 4 and 4k?
A question: how much does the zorki 4 weigh? And which are the differences between zorki 4 and 4k?
comp_wiz101
Compulsive Tinkerer
Functionally, the 4K has a "rapid" lever wind and the 4 has a knob wind. The only other differences: earlier Zorki 4 have engraved numbering, esp. on the shutter speed dial which is resistant to wear and they have better body coverings. The 4K has silkscreened numbers which wear off (I made a new dial on the computer to replace, It's on the forum), and the body is covered with nylon. You can get a leather kit for it though, it makes it much nicer to hold. Build quality is also variable throughout the years... my rule of thumb is to choose the years that the Soviet Union was doing the best, and they seem to line up with good cameras
Jocko
Off With The Pixies
I’ve been using FSU rangefinders for 20 years and in that time have had nearly all of them.
Whilst I understand why the Zorki 4/4k has a devoted following, it’s important to remember that all FSU cameras have distinct personalities and related drawbacks.
The much admired Zorki 4 viewfinder is utterly useless if you wear glasses, when at most 65% of the frame is actually visible. Many people with perfect sight also find that a large percentage of the viewfinder is effectively invisible.
Perhaps more importantly, I would also argue that the Zorki 4 is a fundamentally mediocre design. The FED 2 has a fairly dull viewfinder, but is (IMHO) in all other respects a much better camera. It seems to have reflected the philosophy behind the best Soviet military products - form follows function to produce a robust, ergonomic and eminently effective tool, qualities which ensure an idiosyncratic elegance. It is worth remembering that the Soviets intended to replace the Zorki 4 with a camera closely based on the Zorki 6, a very different design.
There is also much to commend a good Kiev, but were I buying a first FSU camera, I would probably be drawn to the Zorki 5/6, which benefited from FED design imput - notably the excellent long-base FED 2 rangefinder, which should ensure extremely accurate focussing (good for that Jupiter 9, wide-open). Both are compact, attractive and quirkily modern designs - the 5 is a bottom loader, and the 6 has a hinged door, but otherwise they are very similar. Best of all, they feature a superb, crisp and contrasty viewfinder, so good it was later used on the legendary Iskra 6x6 - “The Leica of folding cameras”. A decent example of either would be an excellent start, with the 6 perhaps the easiest to load.
Cheers, Ian
Whilst I understand why the Zorki 4/4k has a devoted following, it’s important to remember that all FSU cameras have distinct personalities and related drawbacks.
The much admired Zorki 4 viewfinder is utterly useless if you wear glasses, when at most 65% of the frame is actually visible. Many people with perfect sight also find that a large percentage of the viewfinder is effectively invisible.
Perhaps more importantly, I would also argue that the Zorki 4 is a fundamentally mediocre design. The FED 2 has a fairly dull viewfinder, but is (IMHO) in all other respects a much better camera. It seems to have reflected the philosophy behind the best Soviet military products - form follows function to produce a robust, ergonomic and eminently effective tool, qualities which ensure an idiosyncratic elegance. It is worth remembering that the Soviets intended to replace the Zorki 4 with a camera closely based on the Zorki 6, a very different design.
There is also much to commend a good Kiev, but were I buying a first FSU camera, I would probably be drawn to the Zorki 5/6, which benefited from FED design imput - notably the excellent long-base FED 2 rangefinder, which should ensure extremely accurate focussing (good for that Jupiter 9, wide-open). Both are compact, attractive and quirkily modern designs - the 5 is a bottom loader, and the 6 has a hinged door, but otherwise they are very similar. Best of all, they feature a superb, crisp and contrasty viewfinder, so good it was later used on the legendary Iskra 6x6 - “The Leica of folding cameras”. A decent example of either would be an excellent start, with the 6 perhaps the easiest to load.
Cheers, Ian
lushd
Donald
Hi - excellent advice from all. I've said this before - they're cheap and you can usually sell them for close to what you paid (especially on here). Try them all!
My preference would be for a Zorki 6 that has been well serviced, combined with a Jupiter 8 lens. Good alternatives are the Industar 61LD and the Industar 50.
As I have just started going through a servicing programme with all mine, I can't recommendd Oleg Khalyavin as a supplier or engineer enough. Once you have tasted an FSU camera that has been properly adjusted and cleaned you won't settle for less.
I've just been out with my Zorki 1 following a service and it's amazing to use.
Whatever you do, have lots of fun!
My preference would be for a Zorki 6 that has been well serviced, combined with a Jupiter 8 lens. Good alternatives are the Industar 61LD and the Industar 50.
As I have just started going through a servicing programme with all mine, I can't recommendd Oleg Khalyavin as a supplier or engineer enough. Once you have tasted an FSU camera that has been properly adjusted and cleaned you won't settle for less.
I've just been out with my Zorki 1 following a service and it's amazing to use.
Whatever you do, have lots of fun!
clarence
ダメ
Jocko said:
Ian, do you know if the Zorki 6 rangefinder effective base length is better or equal to that of the Fed 2? Also, is it only the viewfinder that is brighter, or is the rangefinder brighter as well?
I chose the FED 2 for it's compact design and rangefinder EBL, but if the Zorki 6 is indeed better in the latter aspect, I might get one someday.
Thanks.
Clarence
Jocko
Off With The Pixies
clarence said:
Hi Clarence! The Zorki 5/6 and Fed 2 rangefinders have the same base - 67mm I believe. I've just done a quick test with regard to RF brightness and was surprised by the result. The FED viewfinder is darker for a reason! In very strong light - a cloudless summer afternoon - the RF patch is notably brighter than that of my Zorki 5. I wondered if this might just be a quirk, but an Iskra was almost identical. I have a feeling that the Zorki 6 may be a little more contrasty - perhaps Donald could run a test.
Both RF patches were perfectly usable, but the FED stood up better in daylight. My perception has always been that the Zorki was better in subdued conditions, but I'll compare them as darkness falls...
Cheers, Ian
lushd
Donald
I am going straight to the camera cupboard this minute and I will squint through my Z5 and Z6 on everyone's behalf.
Back in a mo...
Back in a mo...
Nickfed
Well-known
The bases are the same. The Zorki-6 rangefinder spot is about 30% bigger and marginally brighter but the FED-2 looks brighter because the viewfinder is darker. The two viewfinders are the same size.clarence said:
I'm sure Jocko is right in that the FED-2 would be a bit disconcerting in subdued light. I found the FED OK in normal indoor lighting.
Jocko
Off With The Pixies
Sometimes we turn our assumptions into certainties - a very bad move indeed as I discovered tonight.
This evening, as I promised, I compared the finders of the FED 2 and Zorki 5 indoors, in even light, a hand-held meter showing an exposure of 1/60th of a second at f2 with 400 ISO film.
As previously noted, the Zorki finder was significantly brighter than that of the FED, but the FED rangefinder spot remained noticably clearer than that of the Zorki. Against all expectations I prefered the FED finder. It may be dark, but given the lack of slow speeds on both machines, it remains perfectly servicable at the limits of the camera's performance. The Zorki 5 was satisfactory, but I personally would happily trade viewfinder brightness for crisper focussing.
This very much surprised me, as I was absolutely sure that the Zorki was "better". I'm still inclined to think that the Zorki 6 may have a more contrasty viewfinder, yet, as it is, the Fed wins out, so far as I'm concerned.
Cheers, Ian
This evening, as I promised, I compared the finders of the FED 2 and Zorki 5 indoors, in even light, a hand-held meter showing an exposure of 1/60th of a second at f2 with 400 ISO film.
As previously noted, the Zorki finder was significantly brighter than that of the FED, but the FED rangefinder spot remained noticably clearer than that of the Zorki. Against all expectations I prefered the FED finder. It may be dark, but given the lack of slow speeds on both machines, it remains perfectly servicable at the limits of the camera's performance. The Zorki 5 was satisfactory, but I personally would happily trade viewfinder brightness for crisper focussing.
This very much surprised me, as I was absolutely sure that the Zorki was "better". I'm still inclined to think that the Zorki 6 may have a more contrasty viewfinder, yet, as it is, the Fed wins out, so far as I'm concerned.
Cheers, Ian
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ampguy
Veteran
Interesting
Interesting
I just got a Zorki 4, my first FSU camera. It should be in exc. condition, but I'm still a little intimidated by this always cock the shutter before setting shutter speed, and the film loading, but I guess one should learn this sometime in their photographic life...
I plan to shoot a couple of rolls through it and sell it. We'll see...
Interesting
I just got a Zorki 4, my first FSU camera. It should be in exc. condition, but I'm still a little intimidated by this always cock the shutter before setting shutter speed, and the film loading, but I guess one should learn this sometime in their photographic life...
I plan to shoot a couple of rolls through it and sell it. We'll see...
Michael I. said:
P
PhotoJim
Guest
A bit late, but here I go
I agree that the Fed 2 is a great choice. These cameras are very well made. They are a pleasure to use. The finder makes indoor photography difficult but outdoor work is easy.
The Fed 5 bodies are ugly but they are dirt cheap and they work well. The finder is quite nice. The newest ones lack diopter adjustment, though. (The point about certain viewfinders being terrible with glasses is irrelevant if you have diopter adjustment - just focus the camera diopter to work with your vision without glasses. You'll scratch your glasses with FSU cameras anyway; better to have them atop your head while shooting ).
The Zorki 4 is a good beginner body. The winding is a bit snarky but the camera is easy to use. I agree to get an older one (and I plan to do this myself). I thought I'd like the 4K better and got this first but I don't. The winding mechanism is too noisy. I prefer the knob.
My favourite FSU camera, though, is the Fed 3. There are two versions, the a and the b. The b is modernish with a lever wind. It's a nice camera and looks quite handsome. The a is even better, though, with a two-tiered top plate and a knob wind. They are fairly hard to find but they look cool and they are just as fun to use.
Whatever you get, shoot it a lot and enjoy it!
I agree that the Fed 2 is a great choice. These cameras are very well made. They are a pleasure to use. The finder makes indoor photography difficult but outdoor work is easy.
The Fed 5 bodies are ugly but they are dirt cheap and they work well. The finder is quite nice. The newest ones lack diopter adjustment, though. (The point about certain viewfinders being terrible with glasses is irrelevant if you have diopter adjustment - just focus the camera diopter to work with your vision without glasses. You'll scratch your glasses with FSU cameras anyway; better to have them atop your head while shooting
).The Zorki 4 is a good beginner body. The winding is a bit snarky but the camera is easy to use. I agree to get an older one (and I plan to do this myself). I thought I'd like the 4K better and got this first but I don't. The winding mechanism is too noisy. I prefer the knob.
My favourite FSU camera, though, is the Fed 3. There are two versions, the a and the b. The b is modernish with a lever wind. It's a nice camera and looks quite handsome. The a is even better, though, with a two-tiered top plate and a knob wind. They are fairly hard to find but they look cool and they are just as fun to use.
Whatever you get, shoot it a lot and enjoy it!
clarence
ダメ
Thanks for conducting the comparison, Ian!
I wonder if palabras has found a camera yet.
Clarence
I wonder if palabras has found a camera yet.
Clarence