A hole in S3 2000 shutter curtain

kdemas said:
Kirk,

If you call Nikon USA they most likely will have NO idea what camera you're talking about. I called twice when I had the same camera as you and couldn't get a person who knew anything about the camera, let alone about the parts I was asking about (such as a replacement baseplate). Don't be surprised if they keep thinking you're talking about the little old S3 P&S from a few years back.

Kent
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I second that! They don't even know what an S3 is I was god damned shocked.....sometimes I wonder about Nikon.:mad:
 
icebear said:
I did a DIY on a Leica MP shutter curtain with a toothpick and a tiny amount of "liquid electrical tape" (e.g. from home depot). Apply the tiniest amount you can apply from both sides of the shutter and leave everything dry open for 24 hrs. You have nothing to loose. You can't use it as is and have to repair it anyway. If your repair also works, you have save a couple of hundreds. The stuff will be permanently elastic, is black and totally light tight. You will need a bit of courage and a steady hand though, good luck. Worked for me.
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I have used same DIY technique on the shutter curtaiins of a Canon P. It works and it lasts. Why go for a major overaul when a basic DIY will do.
 
raid said:
I have used same DIY technique on the shutter curtaiins of a Canon P. It works and it lasts. Why go for a major overaul when a basic DIY will do.
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The Canon P shutter curtains are made of steel foils. As a result most of them got wrinkles from dragging film leaders and operators' lousy fingers but I wonder under which circumstances they could get some pinholes in them. Could you tell us more about that ?
 
I have no idea how it happened, but suddenly I saw a hotspot in all images. I wrote about it at RFF when this occurred a few years ago. I have three Canon P bodies, as it is one of my alltime favorite RF cameras, and I am aware of the curtain wrinkle issue.

At that time, I was using a Canon FD 7.5mm fisheye lens on my RF cameras, so there was a chance for plenty of sunlight to teach the curtains, but this would not explain how a steel foil curtain get a hole in it.
 
Must have been metal fatigue at the point of an excessive wrinkling - no way for this to happen because of the sun and the lens behaving as a lupe on some metallic shutter curtains.

Rick Oleson once reported me something similar having happened on a Nikon F shutter. But this is fairly rare with Nikon titanium shutter curtains which have proved to be extremely resistant over time and heavy use. The Canon P shutter is more fragile (you don't see wrinkled Nikon titanium shutter curtains although they've seen the same amount of dragging film leaders and operators' lousy fingers).
 
The P is not expensive, so a DIY fix takes care of such little problems in the curtain.
 
Do you now have second thoughts about owning the Nikon?

thompsonks said:
I was appalled to find that my minty black SP 2000 now has a hole in the shutter curtain. I need to have it replaced.

1. I can't use DIY advice (way too clumsy). I need advice on who in the US will do this well. I've had Essex work on an S2 and thought they were a bit careless (instructions overlooked, and a new light scratch). I know that DAG is willing to work on Nikon RFs, but I doubt he has Nikon parts. Who might be the most skilled/reliable repair person with a replacement shutter curtain?

2. I understand that a lot of SP and S3 parts are interchangeable. Is it possible to have an S3 cloth curtain replaced with a titanium curtain?

3. How-the-*ell doe this sort of thing happen? The hole appears as a pinpoint at the bottom of negatives (and with a bright flashlight at the horizontal top); also as you might expect as large flare spot on some negatives. I can see a very slight abrasion at the site of the round pinhole. I haven't been pointing the camera at the sun or leaving the body without a lens on for the cat to play with. The only thing I've recently done differently is to mount a recently-acquired CV 25mm S-mount lens on the body. There's a hole in the first frame with that lens and none that I can see on previous rolls. A possible cause?

Advice greatly appreciated,

Kirk
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Highway 61 said:
.....The Canon P shutter is more fragile (you don't see crinkled Nikon titanium shutter curtains although they've seen the same amount of dragging film leaders and operators' lousy fingers).
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I wouldn't go quite that far. Year's back, when I was doing the used camera show circuit, it wasn't unusual to see a wrinkled Nikon F shutter. If you don't know what you're doing, or are in a hurry, you can wrinkle a titanium shutter while loading it.

Jim B.
 
ferider said:
.....As a side note: metal shutters will get holes, too.
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Titanium or stainless steel shutters? I asked about this years ago and was told it was impossible to burn a hole in a titanium shutter (though I've heard of cameras with pinoles in their titanium shutter curtains).

Jim B.
 
"Do you now have second thoughts about owning the Nikon?"

Is that a feeler about acquiring it? :) It's on its way back from Japan now. I've felt the occasional pang that it's 'too good for me,' since I do put visible wear on my cameras. It'll be my main camera for finishing a particular project, and I suppose I'll sell my S2 'starter kit' now and just keep S3 with 28 Nikkor and 50 S-mount Sonnar. Probably hold onto the Millennium 50 just to keep the set together. Jon has been very kind and helpful to me in having this S3 modified by the best Nikon techs in Japan.

Kirk
 
It is a question aimed at learning more about the Nikon and the trust in such cameras.
I am more interested in lenses than in cameras. The S-mount Sonnar and the Millenium 50 both have excellent reputations.
 
Mackinaw said:
Titanium or stainless steel shutters? I asked about this years ago and was told it was impossible to burn a hole in a titanium shutter (though I've heard of cameras with pinoles in their titanium shutter curtains).

Jim B.
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Carbon Steel has a melting point above 1425 degree C, stainless steel 1510, and Titanium of 1670.

Delta is too small too make a difference, Jim, IMHO.
 
I put patche(s) on my black Millennium shutter - not one but TWO pin-holes. One very close to the bottom of the film rail (top of image). Not big enough to show up - but just in case. The problem with the patches is that they can curl up and fall off. When that happens - in goes a titanium shutter!
As for "holed" stainless and titanium shutters - that is mostly due physical impact. Finger nail, edge of film leader etc. Rarer than "sun spots" but it can happen. If you "burn" a metal shutter - you usually melt the film and it sticks to the pressure plate. Been there, done that with a Nikon F and a "mirror up" fish-eye lens. It is a mess!!!!
 
Mackinaw said:
I wouldn't go quite that far. Year's back, when I was doing the used camera show circuit, it wasn't unusual to see a wrinkled Nikon F shutter. If you don't know what you're doing, or are in a hurry, you can wrinkle a titanium shutter while loading it.

Jim B.
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Yes, very probably.
 
@Tom: Just as you said – it was the third pinhole that did it for me. I patched two holes, but the third one – more like a tear – led to replacing the curtains. If you plan on changing to ti shutter curtains when you've counted to three, you might want to set aside the parts now. My guess is you have some used F curtains lying around, but if you'd want new ones, they're apparently hard to locate. Mine are a new pair for F3.

@Raid: By somewhat unlikely coincidence, Tom, Alfred, and I developed tears &/or pinholes in NIB or LNIB black 2000 S3s (to be precise, 2002 'Limited Editions') that came on the market not long ago. Acording to Jon, this hadn't been a problem before. The usual explanation – sun-burn through a WA lens – didn't seem to apply. Perhaps during the 12 years of their youth, they hadn't been stored properly. It could have been a humidity problem, because (as Jon mentioned above) mine had also developed or grown some gunk in its rangefinder. So the whole 'new' camera got ti curtains and a CLA.

I got mine from Igor, who I believe has Eastern European connections; so I'm blaming it on careless storage by international thieves from a shadowy Russian mafia. Not being photographers, they hid their loot in a musty cave. (As good an explanation as any?)

Other than this one issue in a few black S3 2000s that seem to have been marketed at one time, there's no wider concern about quality/durability of Nikon RF bodies. They're built like tanks.

Kirk
 
Rather sounds like a QC problem with the cloth material itself used on those black S3 2002 cameras shutters. I'd be very skeptical about the reissue Nikon RF cameras shutter curtains being made of the same "habutae silk" they used to be in the S2, the 1958 S3 and the first SP series before the introduction of the ti curtains.
 
Kirk, the old shutter curtains are in the box with the camera which is already winging its way back to you in Berkeley, so you can take a closer look at them when they arrive. I couldn't see anything out of the ordinary with them but I didn't look that hard. Perhaps examination under a microscope would reveal something the naked eye cannot see. After explaining in more detail what you think happened to the curtains I asked the guys at Kiitos again what they thought could have caused the problem, and they were still not sure. They said have never seen this kind of problem with a reissue Nikon RF before. So its still a bit of a mystery...
 
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