a IIIa, but the slow shutter speeds all stick. can i fix it?

[tobias]

Hello All,
yesterday i was offered a IIIa (206705) in incredible condition. well, for me it was amazing. it had two small dings on the RF cover, but apart from that, the leather looked new, and the RF mirrors were bright as my M3... and there was no brassing on the bottom plate (though i am a little puzzled at why my M3 has a 3/8" thread, and the LTMs appear to have 1/4"). and, a Xenon 50/1,5 on the front. glass looked good, but the filter ring has a dent.

However, the low speeds dial, even though it all feels amazing, and the wind is like butter, all of the Z speeds acted somewhat like a B setting, which is disappointing. Do any of you know whether this is something easily fixed, or does this make the camera very expensive and in need of a CLA?

Thank you kindly

t+

 

[payasam]

Not easily fixed. It may be an indication that the upper dial speeds are also off.

 

[FrankS]

payasam, I'll defer to you, but I thought, IIRC, I have read that the slow shutter speed unit in the screwmount Leicas were easy to service, located in the bottom, under the baseplate, again IIRC.

 

[xayraa33]

the camera most probably needs a CLA.
it is a bit too involved for some people and a camera of that caliber should be seviced by a qualified tech IMO.
here is what is involved with a similar camera, a late IIIf.

http://www.mediajoy.com/en/lrc/loh/index.html

 

[FrankS]

Wow. Clearly I was wrong. Thanks Joseph!

 

[xayraa33]

you are welcome Frank.
I hate seeing fine cameras butchered on kitchen tables, it is a false economy.
a fine camera like a Leica will bring in good money if you keep the recipt of a recent professional CLA if you ever decide to sell it, not to mention the fun of using it in the mean time.

 

[FrankS]

So the slow speed escapement is at the bottom of the shutter box. Perhaps what I remember reading is that one can access it (not remove it) in order to un-gunk it. Or perhaps the pre-IIIc models were different/simpler in this regard due to the different design they had.

 

[alternatve]

you are welcome Frank.
I hate seeing fine cameras butchered on kitchen tables, it is a false economy.
a fine camera like a Leica will bring in good money if you keep the recipt of a recent professional CLA if you ever decide to sell it, not to mention the fun of using it in the mean time.

I agree.

Tried it once, and will never do it again. Not worth the time and has a very high chance of ruining something that will never be built again.

Samuel

 

[xayraa33]

the III, IIIa and IIIb had similar slow speed escapements and similar slow speed knob dis- assembly.
the IIIc and both IIIFs RD, & BD also have similar slow speed escapment mechanisims with a slight change on the red dial model and a different slow speed knob dis-assembly on these cast body models than the older Leicas .
I know of pawnshops and camera show sellers that spray the escapement mechanism at the bottom of body thru the lens mount with lighter fluid using a syringe on the III, IIIa and IIIb because it is semi exposed on these models and tighten up the 1st curtain tension so more force is used to run against the lever of a gummy escapement mechanisim.
but these are a way of cheating, a proper CLA is what is really needed.

 

[xayraa33]

BTW,too much lighter fluid at the bottom of your Leica has the nasty tendency to dissolve the glue on the tapes and shutter curtain attached to rollers and the curtain drum.
so now you will have a real mess on your hands.
time to see a profesional camera tech for sure now.

 

[tobias]

Thank you kind sirs,
the run through that xayraa linked is superb, as in it helps me to guess that the work needed is minimal. My eye and ear were telling me that the main shutter speeds were firing correctly. Thus, i need to call the old tech for an estimate.

Since it has been around 12 years since i bought an early leica body, have you any opinions on how much i should pay for the body and lens, considering the need of a CLA?

thank you very much for the sunday attention.

t+

 

[xayraa33]

it depends on what lens and the overall condition of both.
IIIa bodies go for about 150 to 250 dollars.
a CLA is around 150 to 200 dollars in N. America
more in W. Europe
OLeg from the FSU is said to work good and cheap on these, but there is always the mailing risk to get it there and back.

 

[Rob-F]

The shutter behavior you are describing is quite common for an old Leica thread-mount. It has to do with the lubricants that were used in those days. They were organic. In time they become congealed and gummy. The camera is probably worth buying, at the right price. It simply needs a CLA. In the meantime, try the following. Exercise the camera at all shutter speeds, many times. Then hold the camera with the lens up, the back flat on the table. Now try firing the shutter. Does it work better that way? That would be typical. Next, ask if you can run a roll through it. Just some cheap Walgreens film you can get processed in an hour. Shoot a few shots in bright light. See any spots on the prints that would indicate holes in the shutter curtain? If you do, it is not a disqualifying defect, but it will add at least $100 to the repair.

In either case, if you buy it, just box it up and send it for a CLA. I've used all the popular techs in the US (almost) but for Leica thread mount cameras at a good price, I'll recommend John Maddox in South Carolina. He's done superb work on two IIIc's for me. He charged me $112.50 for one hat did not need a new shutter curtain, and something over $200 for one that did. Installing a new shutter curtain is a task that challenges the best of them, and my IIIc now runs smooth as silk (It should: it is silk). I don't have anything to gain, just recommending a man that can do the work at a price that makes it feasible to buy an old Leica.

Any any rate, if you love it, buy it and get it restored.

 

[tobias]

got it. a beautiful start.

got it. a beautiful start.

Well, here is the baby. 1936 body, 1938 lens. some work to come.
I am perfectly willing to undertake the risk involved in cleaning and lubricating the machine. I will not, however, touch the range finder or the actual shutter, as they are a bit too complicated. i have done simple shutters, and assembled my Summar diafram without having seen it assembled, oh, and serviced my Rolleiflex 3,5T which is mildly more fiddly than this, for what i need to do.

however, i would like to ask your opinions on lubricants. Micro-Tools lists many lubricants, which i guess makes it more confusing than less. would this kind of kit do the job http://www.micro-tools.com/Merchant...de=HOBBY-KIT&Category_Code=LUB&Store_Code=MTE
or will the thin oil in this not differ substantially from the alltime favorite Singer Super Oil?

Thank you again,
T+

 

[Mael]

First, find the leica repair manual that will tell you where and what lubricants to put in your camera. But as a rule, the internal mechnism has to be completely cleaned before you put new lubricants, because putting new lubricants on older dried grease or dirt will not lubricate at all.

Then, you will need a shutter speed tester if you want to do a rather serious work in adjusting shutter speeds.

 

[harry01562]

Pretty little camera, and a very nice one to use. I'd take the advice and send it out for a CLA. That involves much more than just lubricants, and most of it is recoverable on a resale. It doesn't take too many slips (usually one) to reduce a fine camera to a shelf queen.

Just remember, these Barnack's are addictive. They have lead me to Canon's and even a Zorki 1.

Harry

 

[Dean C Williams]

The slow speeds on Leica thread mounts and copies are run by the second curtain lug hitting the retard lever that runs the slow speed escapement in the bottom of the camera.

As the second curtain starts to travel, it hits the slow speed lug, and the tension on the second curtain causes the retard shaft to rotate and run the escapement. The escapement must be clean or the second curtain lug can't complete it's travel, and the camera will seem to work on B for all slow speeds.

This can also be caused by low tension on the second curtain roller, if the slow speed escapement is actually in proper running order. A number of things have to be made right for this sequence to follow through. Most of the time it is a combination of dirty curtain shafts, a sticky escapement, and improper second curtain tension.

If you're not familiar with the workings in there, you may be best off to send it to a tech.

 

[sanmich]

Hi Tobias

I think I remember the slow speed mechanism do not need any lubricant.
It needs to be clean but dry. but you should check this....