huntjump
Well-known
This past weekend, I reluctantly had to go to Hollywood, CA for a friends birthday. As i came out of a bar on Sunset at the end of the night, I saw the hummer stretched limo with 3 wheels, which i don't think i had ever seen before. I wasn't impressed. I was more disgusted by America's pointless need for bigger and more expensive items to impress other shallow people. I think the alcohol was a contributing factor to desire to shoot it.
Here is the photo I took, which is so silly and not even a keeper. I would have deleted this right away had the situation not escalated so quickly and someone inside would have just come out and asked me not to.:
Untitled by untitled, on Flickr
This is what unfolded next:
Inside the dark opened gull-wing door of the limo, a group of guys who i could not see were yelling profanity, from "why the F is this guy taking photos of us" to "F this fag" (excuse my language) and everything in between. I responded, "it's a free country" and walked to catch up with my friend. Now my tone was probably more pissed than a calm statement, and I definitely know alcohol was a factor in my uncharacteristic brazen response (which wasn't that brazen in my opinion anyway). But as i walked on to catch up with my friends, one of which is a black belt in both Shotokan and Kyokushin, 5 thug guys ran after me and one shoved me from the back, and as i turned he punched me in the jaw. Luckily, this guy was small and stocky, but had no idea how to put weight behind his punch. I'm also 6'1, he maybe 5"7. In any case, it didnt' hurt so much as shock me. Long story short is my friend put him in a head lock and my other friends turned to defend against the other 4 guys charging at us but bouncers LUCKILY got there right away and stopped it. One tried to burn the birthday guy with his cig. We felt we had no choice but to defend ourselves, and none of us enjoy fighting (well maybe the karate guy but not in the street). And in Los Angeles, these thugs could have had guns or knives. I do feel lucky in a way to get off just with just a punch to the face.
Have you ever been in a fight (beyond just words) because of a photo? And do you feel partly to blame? I feel in my situation looking back, I should have said sorry or said nothing, which would have minimized the chance of them starting a fight.
Here is the photo I took, which is so silly and not even a keeper. I would have deleted this right away had the situation not escalated so quickly and someone inside would have just come out and asked me not to.:
Untitled by untitled, on Flickr
This is what unfolded next:
Inside the dark opened gull-wing door of the limo, a group of guys who i could not see were yelling profanity, from "why the F is this guy taking photos of us" to "F this fag" (excuse my language) and everything in between. I responded, "it's a free country" and walked to catch up with my friend. Now my tone was probably more pissed than a calm statement, and I definitely know alcohol was a factor in my uncharacteristic brazen response (which wasn't that brazen in my opinion anyway). But as i walked on to catch up with my friends, one of which is a black belt in both Shotokan and Kyokushin, 5 thug guys ran after me and one shoved me from the back, and as i turned he punched me in the jaw. Luckily, this guy was small and stocky, but had no idea how to put weight behind his punch. I'm also 6'1, he maybe 5"7. In any case, it didnt' hurt so much as shock me. Long story short is my friend put him in a head lock and my other friends turned to defend against the other 4 guys charging at us but bouncers LUCKILY got there right away and stopped it. One tried to burn the birthday guy with his cig. We felt we had no choice but to defend ourselves, and none of us enjoy fighting (well maybe the karate guy but not in the street). And in Los Angeles, these thugs could have had guns or knives. I do feel lucky in a way to get off just with just a punch to the face.
Have you ever been in a fight (beyond just words) because of a photo? And do you feel partly to blame? I feel in my situation looking back, I should have said sorry or said nothing, which would have minimized the chance of them starting a fight.
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jbf
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aahahaha. sorry, but that was your fault. hollywood is hollywood, its always a ****show. all you had to do was be friendly and be like "yo dude that car is -effin' sick (awesome). i just wanted to take a pic of the car man. srory dude."
you wouldnt have had a single problem. ive gotten in peoples faces with a camera and snapped away (without conisent) and just smiled and made small talk and being open/honest and bout what i was doing and no one says a thing. they smile and are generally cool.
you gave off the wrong vibe and body language.
you wouldnt have had a single problem. ive gotten in peoples faces with a camera and snapped away (without conisent) and just smiled and made small talk and being open/honest and bout what i was doing and no one says a thing. they smile and are generally cool.
you gave off the wrong vibe and body language.
Archiver
Veteran
Ouch. I'm glad that you're okay, as it could have been a lot worse. Consider what five guys could do if they stomped someone lying on the ground. People have gone to the hospital and the morgue in such situations.
That's never happened to me, touch wood. I only drink in private, so I'm never out in public after having had a few (an alcohol-fueled photographic wander through Tokyo at night doesn't count).
The worst I've had is a woman asking me somewhat belligerently why I was taking photos of the dresses in a shop window. She said that the designer didn't want her designs ripped off. Generally my street photography, like the photo you took, is on the hoof and from the hip, so people like that would never have known under most circumstances.
I'm also happy that you hang out with at least one friend who is trained to fight. While it is not everyone's cup of tea, a good level of physical fitness and understanding of how to use it, either to run like mad or hit really hard, is always very useful. Of course, we should never allow hubris to make us think we can take out anyone, but we can at least know what to do if push comes to shove, literally.
Again, I'm just glad you are okay. Review your drinking patterns, stealth up the street photography even more, and get some training. And thanks for your post, because it reminds me to review my own.
Edited to add: jbf's post is right on the money. Making like you're friendly and into it would most likely have defused the situation right away.
That's never happened to me, touch wood. I only drink in private, so I'm never out in public after having had a few (an alcohol-fueled photographic wander through Tokyo at night doesn't count).
The worst I've had is a woman asking me somewhat belligerently why I was taking photos of the dresses in a shop window. She said that the designer didn't want her designs ripped off. Generally my street photography, like the photo you took, is on the hoof and from the hip, so people like that would never have known under most circumstances.
I'm also happy that you hang out with at least one friend who is trained to fight. While it is not everyone's cup of tea, a good level of physical fitness and understanding of how to use it, either to run like mad or hit really hard, is always very useful. Of course, we should never allow hubris to make us think we can take out anyone, but we can at least know what to do if push comes to shove, literally.
Again, I'm just glad you are okay. Review your drinking patterns, stealth up the street photography even more, and get some training. And thanks for your post, because it reminds me to review my own.
Edited to add: jbf's post is right on the money. Making like you're friendly and into it would most likely have defused the situation right away.
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huntjump
Well-known
Yeah i'm not from hollywood or the area, I am not negating my actions or minimizing my own fault. I'm very much a pacifist and never fight. "its a free country" was obviously in hindsight instigating, given the area, given the alcohol, and given the type of people inside. I'm not gay, but i have a few friends that are and the word "fag" gets under my skin. I realize it got the best of me, but people are so quick to fight sometimes.
And there was no way I was going to say "sick car" or anything to that nature. As you read, my whole motivation for taking the photo was my disgust. The photo was not worth false flattery. I would rather have deleted and said nothing. But I take your points and accept my own fault in the matter.
And there was no way I was going to say "sick car" or anything to that nature. As you read, my whole motivation for taking the photo was my disgust. The photo was not worth false flattery. I would rather have deleted and said nothing. But I take your points and accept my own fault in the matter.
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Steve Bellayr
Veteran
You want to break up a fight quickly? Take out your cell phone and dial 911. Let them know you called the police and you have the tag number.
huntjump
Well-known
Thanks for your comments. I'm semi-allergic to alcohol, i actually never drink more than 3/4 and a few can make me a bit tipsy. I was celebrating a friend's birthday and i was somewhat on vacation in the area. So I just want to be clear that alcohol isn't some vice of mine heh. It just happened to be a variable that I feel lead me to make the "wrong" decisions.
I also used to do shotokon many years ago, and I'm not a small guy or untrained or out of shape. I just prefer not to fight, and in Los Angeles, too many people are shot or stabbed. And i was hit in the face because he swung as soon as i turned and i had my camera in my left hand (the side i got hit). In any case, I do take this as a lesson. And i am not looking for sympathy.
But I appreciate the comment and story!
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Rogier
Rogier Willems
Go get the security cam video footage and put it on ffn' Youtube hopefully it will show their faces 
This past weekend, I reluctantly had to go to Hollywood, CA for a friends birthday. As i came out of a bar on Sunset at the end of the night, I saw the hummer stretched limo with 3 wheels, which i don't think i had ever seen before. I wasn't impressed. I was more disgusted by America's pointless need for bigger and more expensive items to impress other shallow people. I think the alcohol was a contributing factor to desire to shoot it.
Here is the photo I took, which is so silly and not even a keeper. I would have deleted this right away had the situation not escalated so quickly and someone inside would have just come out and asked me not to.:
Untitled by untitled, on Flickr
This is what unfolded next:
Inside the dark opened gull-wing door of the limo, a group of guys who i could not see were yelling profanity, from "why the F is this guy taking photos of us" to "F this fag" (excuse my language) and everything in between. I responded, "it's a free country" and walked to catch up with my friend. Now my tone was probably more pissed than a calm statement, and I definitely know alcohol was a factor in my uncharacteristic brazen response (which wasn't that brazen in my opinion anyway). But as i walked on to catch up with my friends, one of which is a black belt in both Shotokan and Kyokushin, 5 thug guys ran after me and one shoved me from the back, and as i turned he punched me in the jaw. Luckily, this guy was small and stocky, but had no idea how to put weight behind his punch. I'm also 6'1, he maybe 5"7. In any case, it didnt' hurt so much as shock me. Long story short is my friend put him in a head lock and my other friends turned to defend against the other 4 guys charging at us but bouncers LUCKILY got there right away and stopped it. One tried to burn the birthday guy with his cig. We felt we had no choice but to defend ourselves, and none of us enjoy fighting (well maybe the karate guy but not in the street). And in Los Angeles, these thugs could have had guns or knives. I do feel lucky in a way to get off just with just a punch to the face.
Have you ever been in a fight (beyond just words) because of a photo? And do you feel partly to blame? I feel in my situation looking back, I should have said sorry or said nothing, which would have minimized the chance of them starting a fight.
crawdiddy
qu'est-ce que c'est?
Sounds intense, alright. I've never gotten into a physical altercation over a photo, but I've been told to "delete the photo" (from my film camera), and I've been told by rent-a-cops that I'm not allowed to photograph.
When someone tells me I'm not allowed to do something that I know I am-- it's ON. I know, it's my juvenile anti-authoritarian instincts being triggered. But I can't help myself.
I'm glad you didn't get hurt. But Know Your Rights, and stand up for them. Not doing so is the quickest way to lose them.
When someone tells me I'm not allowed to do something that I know I am-- it's ON. I know, it's my juvenile anti-authoritarian instincts being triggered. But I can't help myself.
I'm glad you didn't get hurt. But Know Your Rights, and stand up for them. Not doing so is the quickest way to lose them.
Field
Well-known
**** those guys. It sucks that humans suck and more so ever are idiots. Bruce Gilden said he has been in fist fights, but he never loses either.
I suppose you could of stated you can not even see them, or act surprised that there are people in it. I would not apologize unless it came out of adrenal mind fart. Perhaps if one came out and talked to you it would of been different, but they may of seen you as running away for a reason. But I mean what can a guy do about living resource wasters? We can only hope with one of the lowest vehicle ratings ever that Hummers received, one night it will spontaneously combust with them in it.
It is always nice to be with friends. A guy was getting mad for me taking pictures of an interaction that was stupid. Some dim wit girl brought my friend downtown holding hands, then walked off with her boyfriend. Anyway all my other friends are huge (I don't know about tougher than I am) and well whatever, give them an excuse to punch a chad and they might take it. They certainly would not leave me hanging.
There is nothing childish or immature about being anti-authority. It is extremely healthy. Your approach can vary from articulate to brute, however. This is actually a growing problem in society... weaklings that will not stand up for their rights or should be rights.
Personally I just want to not need hospital attention but that is usually not a concern because I am not fragile in anyway... my cameras though are more fragile than me.
I suppose you could of stated you can not even see them, or act surprised that there are people in it. I would not apologize unless it came out of adrenal mind fart. Perhaps if one came out and talked to you it would of been different, but they may of seen you as running away for a reason. But I mean what can a guy do about living resource wasters? We can only hope with one of the lowest vehicle ratings ever that Hummers received, one night it will spontaneously combust with them in it.
It is always nice to be with friends. A guy was getting mad for me taking pictures of an interaction that was stupid. Some dim wit girl brought my friend downtown holding hands, then walked off with her boyfriend. Anyway all my other friends are huge (I don't know about tougher than I am) and well whatever, give them an excuse to punch a chad and they might take it. They certainly would not leave me hanging.
There is nothing childish or immature about being anti-authority. It is extremely healthy. Your approach can vary from articulate to brute, however. This is actually a growing problem in society... weaklings that will not stand up for their rights or should be rights.
Personally I just want to not need hospital attention but that is usually not a concern because I am not fragile in anyway... my cameras though are more fragile than me.
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f16sunshine
Moderator
Everyone is allergic to alcohol. That's sort of the point of it I guess.
Worst that ever happened to me was a physco mom exposed my film at a park. I was taking pics of my sis and her children and this lady's kids and her supposedly where somewhere in the frame in the background. It was an SLR and I did not see her in the area out of focus. Parents with sicko overdeveloped imaginations are the worst photographer issue so far.
Field
Well-known
Totally illegal for her to do that...
LeicaFan
Well-known
lol, sorry, but that made me laugh. LA isn't as bad as most people think it is.
Everything could have been avoided if you didn't say what you did. But like you said, the alcohol probably played a part. I know how that goes...
At least nobody was seriously hurt. That is all that matters.
useless generation
Established
I was shooting some photos in Berlin a few weeks back and someone got up off a bench and started yelling "hey. heyyy what the hell are you doing" i just kept walking away pretending not to see them and then two guys come over and start giving me the whole why are you taking my picture your not allowed to unless you ask someone. I tried explaining what my intentions were but they were very aggressive. I was more scared of them robbing me for my Leica gear or trying to damage my camera more than anything. They just kept arguing with me in the end i just walked away from them i guess i was lucky it was a crowded place
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
I think I would have tried to defuse the argument by saying "you have a cool ride, dude"
It worked once in Washington DC. I was shooting in the Mall, and one guy with a goatee got all belligerent and asked me very loudly if I had taken a photograph of him. I just said "sure, you look cute!"
Boy... the look he gave me and the brisk walk in the opposite direction provided me with loads of reasons to chuckle for some time, while still walking down the Mall with my camera intact in my hands.
It worked once in Washington DC. I was shooting in the Mall, and one guy with a goatee got all belligerent and asked me very loudly if I had taken a photograph of him. I just said "sure, you look cute!"
Boy... the look he gave me and the brisk walk in the opposite direction provided me with loads of reasons to chuckle for some time, while still walking down the Mall with my camera intact in my hands.
huntjump
Well-known
Actually, i have no ADLH enzymes so some people are worse than others i suppose. Parents are super protective. I guess there are creeps out there who have sick intentions.
Having many friends and family from there, I disagree. It's not as bad as say, richmond or places in norcal where i live. But to think that 5 shaved headed guys in a stretched hummer who quickly jumped to running down the street to beat up someone MIGHT have a weapon or two seems reasonable.
hah and appreciate the comment. I don't dislike (or fear) LA, hollywood gets under my skin though.
Appreciate the comments. Was just telling a story. Im not upset about it. I chalk to a life lesson.
I think I would have tried to defuse the argument by saying "you have a cool ride, dude"
It worked once in Washington DC. I was shooting in the Mall, and one guy with a goatee got all belligerent and asked me very loudly if I had taken a photograph of him. I just said "sure, you look cute!"
Boy... the look he gave me and the brisk walk in the opposite direction provided me with loads of reasons to chuckle for some time, while still walking down the Mall with my camera intact in my hands.
hah interesting approach. I think in some areas though that could ESCALATE the situation. Glad that worked for you though.
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fotomeow
name under my name
add alcohol to any situation, and it can easily escalate. I used to work in psychiatric hospitals for involuntarily detained adults. This has helped me deal with *ssholes in the real world, such as the d**chebag LA Hummer crew you have described.
I try to take my ego out of the picture to help deescalate the situation and not get sucked into their bull****. Of course, hindsight is 20/20, and I have had my own run-ins with others, and made my own mistakes.
YOU GOT AN EFFIN' PROBLEM WITH THAT?!
I try to take my ego out of the picture to help deescalate the situation and not get sucked into their bull****. Of course, hindsight is 20/20, and I have had my own run-ins with others, and made my own mistakes.
YOU GOT AN EFFIN' PROBLEM WITH THAT?!
Haha, I know exactly what you mean...
jbf
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totally. l.a. is not dangerous like people assume. ive lived here for a while now and i've lived in neighborhoods that people immediately assume are GANG LANDS. fortunately for me its the exact opposite.
Steve M.
Veteran
Please, don't mistake Hollywood, Ca for America. Both parties, I'm sure, feel insulted.
Another instance where having a big, old film camera (heavy, solid, made of metal) is the way to go.
Another instance where having a big, old film camera (heavy, solid, made of metal) is the way to go.
Field
Well-known
You can also say things like "I was just taking a picture of your unique ride" instead being a liar. It is unique, and repugnant all at the same time. I do this often.
One time I made up stories about being a doctor from California that left because of real estate flops and losing all my money. It was a bold apparent lie. You would have to of been yesterday to believe it. It was a joke. Everyone in the circle was making up fake occupations. They took it seriously, then one really did and started talking to me, but then his friend realized it was a lie and got pissed off. I walked away because I could not reason with someone mad at me because his friend is blitheringly-freaking-stupid.