A Positive E-Bay Story

[Pioneer]

Since most of the e-bay stories we read are tales of woe I thought that I would post my own recent experience. I apologize for the length of the story in advance.

I purchased what seemed to be a nice, Rolleflex 3.5F at a fair price in March. When it arrived (late) it turned out to be a wreck. The USPS package was in nice condition and when opened everything appeared to be packed well. But when I took the camera out it became immediately obvious that things were wrong. Without going totally through the laundry list, we'll say it was unable to be used. Since the e-bay post said it was "mint" I contacted the seller and returned the camera. I also opened a case with e-bay.

To shorten the story, the seller was in constant, almost daily, communication from that point on. He assured me he could fix the camera and if he were forced to return my money he would be financially distressed to point of not being able to pay his rent. Over the next 30 days he assured me that everything was being fixed. On the day the case was to be closed he contacted me and said he had just received the camera but since he was disabled and in a wheelchair, he would not be able to reach the post office that day. Against my better judgement I agreed to allow the case to close to give him the time needed.

Needless to say, that was it. No more communication and no camera. I finally contacted ebay today, and after explaining the case to several layers of ebay customer service reps I was allowed an appeal and just receive notice that my claim was approved and that ebay would refund my money.

Unfortunately for other more honest sellers, this guy has soured me on listening to sob stories. If this does occur again I will certainly escalate the case, and I recommend that everyone do this if faced with a similar situation.

 

[sdotkling]

This is an awfully depressing positive E-Bay story. Glad you got your money back, but sorry you met a bunko artist posing as a cripple committing fraud by selling you a trashed camera.

 

[Paulbe]

Pioneer--I agree with Stephan--you have to look awfully hard to see much positive in that story! Maybe you're a born optimist---🙂---happy that you'll get your bux back, though.
Paul

 

[Pioneer]

Thanks. I guess I am an optimist then. At least once a month I read some rant detailing a scenario on the big auction site where they were taken to the cleaners and lost their money entirely.

In this case the ebay processes and programs worked as intended. Nobody likes to be defrauded, but when you find that you cannot even get your money back it becomes far worse.

BTW sorry to depress you.

 

[Dirk]

What was the seller's rating? How many positives/negatives did he have?

 

[Pioneer]

98.4%. I went back and verified after I had begun having problems.

I just did a search and for some reason the name of the seller is entirely gone from ebay now.

Hmm.

 

[xyz3450]

I'm glad you got your money back, but sorry to hear you had to endure such troubles...

 

[Pioneer]

Of course I still don't have a 3.5f. I think I'll stay away from ebay for awhile though. No sense pushing my good fortune too far. 🙂

Maybe I'll touch base with Harry Fleenor and see if he has one lying around that he can service and send to me for a reasonable price.

 

[Scrambler]

Must be something about 3.5Fs. I'm just pursuing ebay/ paypal for a refund for one I "bought" that didn't get sent (fake tracking number!)

 

[jarski]

both positive and negative story IMO. of all the eBay stories I've read here and elsewhere, didn't knew yet about such delaying tactic. hope seller gets what he/she deserves 😡

 

[ray*j*gun]

I wouldn't buy or sell a camera on ebay...... I learned my lesson, actually twice.

 

[slidesandthecity]

My experience with Ebay has been a mixed bag.

Photo gear: Two out of three items were not as described. The seller with the most accurate description had the worst rating.
Other stuff: Out of ten items (both used and new) all were as described.

The photo items were a compact Pentax, which displayed an error message and "froze" at each shutter actuation. The other item was a Focomat with defective wiring causing a short circuit every time. Both items were sold as "tested and fully working" ...

 

[cmc850]

The OP experience is very similar to one I had recently - I purchased a camera, and was told it had been damaged prior to shipment. The seller offered a different camera, which I said I would accept. He later indicated he had shipped it - but oddly, he actually shipped me yet a third camera, an slr, rather than the Olympus rangefinder I had agreed on!

He said he sent that camera as a "loaner" as I obviously needed something to shoot with right away - I informed him I have no shortage of cameras and my haste was simply to secure a camera I had agreed on - crazy! In the end I got the Olympus, but like so many listings, the description was optimistic in terms of "working"

I avoid any listing where the seller says "they know nothing about such cameras", "unable to fully test", or "appears to be working etc". Generally, I take advantage of a return or refund process, and pay according to what a non-functional camera is worth. I think the number of real bargain old camera on ebay are high, but most are in need of repairs, which can add quite a bit to the total cost.

Having sold a number of photo items on ebay also, I can say buyer expectations are often a bit out of whack - something that is priced very cheaply is likely in a condition aligned with the price. Basically don't expect mint unless it says so - and look for clear photos and clear expectations. If the listing doesn't have them, look elsewhere or ask for them.

 

[NY_Dan]

98.4%. I went back and verified after I had begun having problems.

I just did a search and for some reason the name of the seller is entirely gone from ebay now.

Hmm.

98.4 is a bad seller rating. Ken Rockwell writes, and I don't remember the exact numerical rating, that he won't buy from anyone with less than a 99.8.

Clues for a bad deal -- seller knows nothing about camera, few photos -- bad quality of photos -- photos are too small to do the mouse rollover enlarging. Vague descriptions -- words like mint, minty -- when you can see wear on item -- and meaningless numerical ratings like 9 -- no 2 people IMHO will assign the same rating number. Also, potentially meaningless terms like shutter speeds sound good.

Camera describes as mint, but leather case looks like it came through the war -- that's a possible give away.

Any Rolleiflex one buys, unless NOS, one should expect to need a $300 or so CLA to shutter and transport mechanisms.

Any time a seller tell you a sob story -- that's a red flag to immediately do a PayPal claim -- PayPal will freeze the funds. And always use your credit card to pay for items -- never your PayPal balance. If you have a balance, transfer it to your bank account, then pay for item. When filing a claim, be weary about the check box or agreeing to let PayPal be the final decision maker on your claim's validity.

Be extra weary about buying from another country -- sending item back is so much more difficult and costly. I've had good experiences with people from the UK.

When buying an expensive camera -- it's a good sign if seller has happy buyers of similar high end items. Whenever possible try to speak to seller on the phone -- you can quickly tell if they're insincere. And you can walk a seller who doesn't know about cameras through a few ways of diagnosing camera issues -- especially relating to lenses.

That is all 🙂

 

[grdglass]

And be careful of what they leave out of a description. No mention of lens blades? Means they probably have oil. No mention of storage environment? Means it could smell from mold and mildew, or cigarette smoke. Etc., etc., etc.

 

[Rob-F]

I'll do this in installments, as I've had trouble with RFF login recently.

I sold a camera for $1500 to another eBayer and sent it by Priority Mail. The buyer notified me that although he stayed home all day to receive it, it was not delivered, and no note was left on his door.

I contacted postal authorities, who put me in touch with the local postmaster at the destination post office. She told me by phone that the package had been scanned out for delivery, and then scanned back in to the post office later that evening. The bad news was that even though it had been scanned back in, and therefore should have been somewhere within the post office walls, she couldn't find it. And now for the worst part: the mailman who had the package with him had retired. The day it should have been delivered was his last day on the job. He was unavailable for comment, as TV reporters say.

So I sent a letter, by certified Priority Mail, to the Postmaster General of the United States. He kindly assigned a federal investigator to the case. The investigator believed that the buyer probably picked up the package a day or so later, directly from the post office; and that the clerk must have failed to obtain a signature. He asked me to check with the buyer to see if he had picked up any packages. He had, but that one had a different tracking number than mine. However, this would not rule that he might have picked up a different package--mine--for which the clerk didn't get a signature. So the investigator asked if I had the camera's serial number. When I said I had it, he said, "PERFECT!" and wrote it down.

And that was the last I ever heard of the matter. I wasn't out anything, as I had been paid via PayPal.

 

[Pioneer]

98.4 is a bad seller rating. Ken Rockwell writes, and I don't remember the exact numerical rating, that he won't buy from anyone with less than a 99.8.

Clues for a bad deal -- seller knows nothing about camera, few photos -- bad quality of photos -- photos are too small to do the mouse rollover enlarging. Vague descriptions -- words like mint, minty -- when you can see wear on item -- and meaningless numerical ratings like 9 -- no 2 people IMHO will assign the same rating number. Also, potentially meaningless terms like shutter speeds sound good.

Camera describes as mint, but leather case looks like it came through the war -- that's a possible give away.

Any Rolleiflex one buys, unless NOS, one should expect to need a $300 or so CLA to shutter and transport mechanisms.

Any time a seller tell you a sob story -- that's a red flag to immediately do a PayPal claim -- PayPal will freeze the funds. And always use your credit card to pay for items -- never your PayPal balance. If you have a balance, transfer it to your bank account, then pay for item. When filing a claim, be weary about the check box or agreeing to let PayPal be the final decision maker on your claim's validity.

Be extra weary about buying from another country -- sending item back is so much more difficult and costly. I've had good experiences with people from the UK.

When buying an expensive camera -- it's a good sign if seller has happy buyers of similar high end items. Whenever possible try to speak to seller on the phone -- you can quickly tell if they're insincere. And you can walk a seller who doesn't know about cameras through a few ways of diagnosing camera issues -- especially relating to lenses.

That is all 🙂

These are all very good guidelines, and I usually follow them all.

But, when the excuses started I should have realized I was being played. My wife says I am a gentle soul at heart and was ripe to be picked. She was actually surprised when my appeal was successful.

What I did learn was; 1) Take Pictures; 2)Document and communicate regularly on ebay, not off line; 3) Stay level headed, even when you are very frustrated.

Oh well, I just spoke with a guy on APUG about a nice looking Rolleiflex 3.5F but it has already been sold so I am still on the hunt. 😀

 

[Steve M.]

APUG is pretty much a bullet proof place to buy, since you have to be a paid member to sell there. Glad your experience worked out, finally. I've had my share of bad issues w/ ebay too, but out out of over 2500 transactions, maybe a handful have gone south. I'm very surprised everything worked out w/ ebay customer service, as my experiences there have been horrid. As a seller, you're wrong in their eyes even if you're obviously right. I still buy and sell a little there, and am fixing to sell nearly all of my gear there (going back to painting and etching) because, like them or hate them, that's where the buyers are. It pays to ck all the appropriate boxes when selling. I never sell out of the US, won't sell to people w/ low feedback, and will not sell to anyone new w/ a 0 feedback rating. Not that there's anything wrong w/ international buyers, not at all, it's just that there are too many things that can go wrong. One thing I've learned is to always insure what you sell (just include that in the shipping charges), and keep in mind that Paypal requires signed delivery confirmation on anything over $200.

Have you tried a WTB ad for that camera here and elsewhere, as well as checking w/ camera stores? I can heartily recommend KEH, National Camera Exchange, and Camera West. Had nothing but good experiences w/ all of them, and you can pick up the phone and get them to describe things (not KEH) while you're on the line. Igor is a bit of a mixed bag w/ the Leica gear, but I have been VERY happy w/ buying Rolleiflex cameras from him. For what it's worth, the Rolleiflex E w/ Planars are lighter than the F cameras, and the optics are the same. You can pick them up for less money than the F cameras.

 

[Pioneer]

APUG is pretty much a bullet proof place to buy, since you have to be a paid member to sell there. Glad your experience worked out, finally. I've had my share of bad issues w/ ebay too, but out out of over 2500 transactions, maybe a handful have gone South. I'm very surprised everything worked out w/ ebay customer service, as my experiences there have been horrid. As a seller, you're wrong in their eyes even if you're obviously right. I still buy and sell a little there, and am fixing to sell nearly all of my gear there (going back to painting and etching) because, like them or hate them, that's where the buyers are. It pays to ck all the appropriate boxes when selling. I never sell out of the US, won't sell to people w/ low feedback, and will not sell to anyone new w/ a 0 feedback rating. One thing I've learned is to always insure what you sell (just include that in the shipping charges), and keep in mind that Paypal requires signed delivery confirmation on anything over $200.

This is a very good point SteveM. Even with returns I pack very carefully, often better than the original seller, insure the package and require signature pickup. Certainly if I sell I also do the same, it is just one more thing that can sneak up and burn you.

 

[Frontman]

I have sold hundreds of cameras on eBay, and nearly all transactions have been great ones. On occasion I have made a mistake, I have sent the wrong camera to a buyer, or forgotten to put something in the box which should have been included, but these were easy to sort out. Problem buyers exist, I have had buyers claim damages of one type or another, and ask for a partial refund. It is easier just to pay the money, and not argue. Customs has damaged a couple of cameras, which the buyers of course are not happy about. And then there is the occasional buyer who drops or breaks a camera, and then claims he received it that way.

But things happen, and the problems which one experiences on eBay are not much different than those I have had when dealing with regular shops or stores.