gareth
Established
"Rover folded after BMW sold it to the (mis)management, maybe bailed out would be a better word."
Rover was built up from the ruins of British Leyland with the help of it's partnership with Honda.
Not so many years ago people laugthed at Honda cars. People laughed at British Leyland too. Both Rover and Honda found sucess through their partnership. Today if that partnership was still there, well Rover would be one of the most respected car manufactueres in the buisiness.
The day the Thatcher government sold it to BMW, without even consulting Honda, they were finnished.
Rover was built up from the ruins of British Leyland with the help of it's partnership with Honda.
Not so many years ago people laugthed at Honda cars. People laughed at British Leyland too. Both Rover and Honda found sucess through their partnership. Today if that partnership was still there, well Rover would be one of the most respected car manufactueres in the buisiness.
The day the Thatcher government sold it to BMW, without even consulting Honda, they were finnished.
nrb
Nuno Borges
Reality may come as a shock to the best of us all. But it's no use ignoring it. Or cropping it.
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Ben,
But you are casting judgment without even owning the camera. I can say that a Ferrari has many flaws and I would not own one. But I would be doing myself an injustice if I were to bail out on a Ferrari based on what someone else wrote. I bet that when his car is not in the shop he has more fun and gets better performance than anyone else. The same with the M8. My M8 performs well enough beyond expectation and I actually get to use it. It does not even need to go into the shops. Unlike those who just say I told you so or I rather buy a 5D. Those will never enjoy the M8 and are missing out because of poor judgment on their side. I bet if I decided to giveaway an M8 instead of the Bessa you would be happy to accept it and praise it.
But you are casting judgment without even owning the camera. I can say that a Ferrari has many flaws and I would not own one. But I would be doing myself an injustice if I were to bail out on a Ferrari based on what someone else wrote. I bet that when his car is not in the shop he has more fun and gets better performance than anyone else. The same with the M8. My M8 performs well enough beyond expectation and I actually get to use it. It does not even need to go into the shops. Unlike those who just say I told you so or I rather buy a 5D. Those will never enjoy the M8 and are missing out because of poor judgment on their side. I bet if I decided to giveaway an M8 instead of the Bessa you would be happy to accept it and praise it.
Ben Z
Veteran
Plasmat said:
Excuse me? "Stick to the Canons"??? I've got one Canon and one lens for it I bought less than a year ago. OTOH I've got 2 M6's, and M4 and a dozen M lenses and have been a dedicated dyed-in-the-wool Leica user for years and years. If the M8 "is just not for" me, then buddy, Leica is in deep trouble.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Just before Rover folded - not that I saw it coming at the time, I seriously considered a 75. It was indeed a brilliant car. What pleased me most was that sitting behind the wheel the dimensions of the windshield were identical to those of my father's 75 - of the fifties. In the end I decided to go with Jaguar as I found the Rover underdeveloped- the right decision as it turned out.For the time being.....gareth said:
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Ben Z
Veteran
jaapv said:
Now that's the first rational argument I've read. I feel $5000 trying to squirm its way out of my wallet . Damn!
Actually I remember one of my pals had a Nikon F5-based Kodak digital way back when that did have an IR filter just inside the body lens opening that he could remove. I don't guess there's room in the M8 for such a thing though
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
I don't think it "is not for you" I think you are blinded by some internet fools and are misjudging the camera. It is a pity you don't live around the corner. I'd push mine into your hands and convert you.Ben Z said:
Toby
On the alert
Jorge Torralba said:
But at the same time don't you think that M8 owners have brought this on themselves by grossly overstating the abilities and significance of this camera before anyone had in their hands. Trolling is a two-way street, so don't be suprised if the overly positive is met by the overly negative whereas the truth lies somewhere in the middle. It wasn't too long ago that I was almost convinced the M8 was going to end world hunger, reconstitute the ozone layer and find Jimmy Hoffa, imagine my dissappointment to discover it was just a camera
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jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
They didn't. They just claimed it is the best digital RF on the market and that the files were up there with the best on offer by any 135 class camera. Which is nothing but the truth. That it is not infallible should come as no surprise. As far as I know the only infallible thing in this world is the Pope - and even he has to be speaking ex cathedra to be so.
mfunnell
Shaken, so blurred
Personally, I want to throw a hissy-fit about Canon: I want a 30D-sized camera with a full-frame sensor that has the same pixel density as a 10megabit APS-C sensor, no digital noise at any ISO setting, no vignetting with any lens, no CA, the 45-point AF system and weather sealing of Canon's 1-series cameras, the sensor cleaning of the 400D and an affordable price-point (no more than a 5D). And I'm going to scream and shout then hold my breath until I get it.Ben Z said:
And if the laws of physics and the rules of engineering and economics don't change pretty quickly, I guess I'm going to expire. Sounds like you're in the same position with respect to Leica.
...Mike
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Ben Z
Veteran
Jorge Torralba said:
Had I bought one I would have returned it as soon as I heard it had to have filters. So the only difference would be I'd have my dealer sore at me.
That's a great line. I think Leica should use it in their ads for the M8.
If what all you M8 fans have been doing these past weeks--the constant testing for blobs and streaks and racing each other to the few 486 IR filters in stock at dealers--is what you call "enjoyment", I'll just stick a fork in my eye, at least I've got Blue Cross so I'll only be out $500 not $5000
Hell yeah, I can be bought
Ben Z
Veteran
mfunnell said:
No, that would be like bitching it isn't full-frame, or that it doesn't win the megapixel race, or that the sensor can't be upgraded with a simple plug-in module, or that it doesn't have a real-image zoom finder, or that it doesn't have an advance lever to cock the (cloth) shutter. That's asking for pie in the sky. I want the M8 with an IR filter just strong enough so it doesn't need filters on the lenses, nothing more nothing less. All the other glitches (blobs, streaks, bands) those are just teething issues that can be expected. I'm not moaning about those either. Just the filters.
Ben Z
Veteran
jaapv said:
It scares me, but I think you just might could
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Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
If what all you M8 fans have been doing these past weeks--the constant testing for blobs and streaks and racing each other to the few 486 IR filters in stock at dealers--is what you call "enjoyment", I'll just stick a fork in my eye, at least I've got Blue Cross so I'll only be out $500 not $5000
That was very funny ... humor keeps this all in perspective!
That was very funny ... humor keeps this all in perspective!
rvaubel
Well-known
Ben Z said:It scares me, but I think you just might could
Ben
I can tell your weakening. We who have succumed to the delights of ms M have just got to convince you of the pleasures of dealing with a camera babe tarted up with those sexy red filters
Rex
IGMeanwell
Well-known
Ben Z said:If what all you M8 fans have been doing these past weeks--the constant testing for blobs and streaks and racing each other to the few 486 IR filters in stock at dealers--is what you call "enjoyment", I'll just stick a fork in my eye, at least I've got Blue Cross so I'll only be out $500 not $5000
I expected alot more "Look what I can do with the M8" threads going on.... or W/NW threads with M8 shots
Maybe after the new year we will see a rise in M8 usage
The gallery has some great images in there just not a whole lot of them
PHOTOEIL
Established
Jorge Torralba said:
KM-25
Well-known
gareth said:
How is it that you can speak for us?
Curious....
KM-25
Well-known
I have to agree with this. Even if the M9 is full frame ( what it takes for me to buy any digital ) there is no way I would sell off my Canon digital or Nikon film kits.
I'm sure the M8 is great in many applications, but I can wait and see what it looks like in a year, I have plenty to do and shoot and plenty of great gear to do it with.
Having said all this, I love my M6 and two aspherics, prefer them quie often.
We all need the M8 to get Leica into the digital age, it really is silly to bag on it.
I'm sure the M8 is great in many applications, but I can wait and see what it looks like in a year, I have plenty to do and shoot and plenty of great gear to do it with.
Having said all this, I love my M6 and two aspherics, prefer them quie often.
We all need the M8 to get Leica into the digital age, it really is silly to bag on it.
Ben Z said:Where are you getting your facts? Can you define "so many" in actual numbers? Other than a handful on internet forums, the only ones I know doing this are amateurs who are tired of their 1Ds or 5D toys or can't afford to keep both.
I'm missing something here. The problems don't seem like it takes much looking to find, and I fail to see where any of them have been resolved in such a way that anyone can claim the M8 yet delivers "the best image quality possible with a 35mm camera".
Again, I would love to know where you are getting these ideas from. I know hundreds of avid camera bugs and none of them are envious or dreaming of an M8 although a few are thanking their lucky stars they decided to wait.
I had every hope for it, and I still have hope the M8-MarkII or M9, whichever it's called, will be what I'd hoped the M8 would be: an M-Leica with a digital capture that works as transparently as my 20D. My M6 could never reproduce the quality of medium format and I don't care if the M8 can't, I just want respectable quality with no band-aid filters needed, and I think you would find a lot more people who hold that opinion than who are envious and dreaming of the M8 as it stands now...though for obvious reasons I doubt you'll find that the majority opinion if you limit your data to current M8 owners and internet Leica forums
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M
Magnus
Guest
Put it another way, I would not of bought my M8 knowing what I know today, would you ?