Exactly. Many of those using the RD1 never knew their cameras had similar issues until everyone was just focused on it. Accept the camera for what it is. An awesome incredible camera!
iml
Well-known
J. Borger said:
Good point. There's lots of good stuff in your gallery, get out and take more pictures like those
Ian
Topdog1
Well-known
I fell into the same trap with high-end stereo equipment. Stopped listening to music and started listening to equipment. Damned near ruined the experience for me. I gave it up and went to standard off-the-shelf equipment. I like my music alot better now and don't give a damn about "high fidelity".J. Borger said:
/Ira
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reagan
hey, they're only Zorkis
I need to print this and tape it to the top of my monitor. It's good advice in any thread - IMHO. (Of course, my post count will do a nose dive, but...Jorge Torralba said:
)
nrb
Nuno Borges
oddly enough all these comments begin to look more and more the chronicle of an announced death...
aad
Not so new now.
Great thread here, and the advice to "stop testing to death" is a breath of fresh air!
I suppose if I ever go to an M mount camera, it will likely be an M8. It sure looks like it would be worth several times an RD-1, if only because it will likely keep on working. The longevity issue is what kept me off the refurbed RDs.
I suppose if I ever go to an M mount camera, it will likely be an M8. It sure looks like it would be worth several times an RD-1, if only because it will likely keep on working. The longevity issue is what kept me off the refurbed RDs.
Toby
On the alert
I'm severely doubt that there are bucketloads of Pro's ditching DSLR's to buy the M8. ANY rangefinder system is too limited and inflexible (no lenses over 135mm for example) to replace a fully fitted out DSLR kit. RF is special because it is excellent at a few things ( e.g. documentary, or street work) but totally useless for others (macro or super tele work), DSLR's are dominant because they are very good at some things (like sport) but usable if not fantastic for virtually everthing else. The M8 is a fantastic addition to an DSLR kit because it adds another string to your bow, but it is certainly not a replacement. There is a lot going for the concept of digital RF but to build it up to levels of fevered hyperbole is foolish. The real achilles heel of the M8 is that the professional work it excels at is probably some of the worst paid, but Leica can't be blamed for the paucity of serious photojournalism in the media and the rise of celebrity magazines and assorted trivia. The M8 is important because it provides an alternate way of making pictures, and choice is something all photographers should be in favour of. I'm an enthusiatic Canon user, but the idea that Canon could become the microsoft of the photography world sends chillls down my spine, we need diversity in our photographic tools and for that reason alone we need a digital M, ricoh GRD's and anything else that can give us an alternate way of expressing how we see the world.
rvaubel
Well-known
endustry said:
I agree that film will be with us for a long time, as will used equipment. But if the M8 takes off, the market for "M" mount lenses and cameras to put them on will be a living, breathing thing. That is a lot different than being an antique collector. But your comment "how much better can M-mount lenses get" indicates a kind of thinking that may seal the doom of Leica.
It doesn't have to be that way. I also collect and enjoy mechanical watches. The Swiss watch industry is far healthier than if was before the advent of the digital watch. While it's true that the introduction of the digital movement almost killed the precision mechanical watch in the 1980's, enough people maintained and cultivated and interest in the tradition analog watch that the industry came roaring back in the late 90's and it is now bigger than ever. And the new mechanical movements are inovative, modern and are not hobbled by any design considerations except what works and is elegant.
In my opinion, there is a market for the same kind of traditional approach to digital cameras. And that is the road that Leica has taken. Even though their have been more than a few hiccuos, I think it serves no one to engage in persistent negitivity. Who or what does the demise of the m8 serve? Will the film fans "win" if the M8 tanks? Is Leica the Evil Empire?
I don't know about the you, but I would like to see healthy M8 sales, a new RD2, new B&W emulsions from Kodak, and a whole lot more.
Rex
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
AusDLK said:BenZ --
Like I wrote on another forum to another --
Oh, brother, you raise the questions of a heretic. Non-believers are shunned and placed upon dreaded ignore lists for failing to fall to our knees and praise the dieties of Solms...
Just a word, you know, to the wise and (mostly) silent brotherhood.
My comment, sir, on your repetitive and increasingly tedious posts can only be this:
You are within your rights to return a product that did not meet your expectations, but continious bashing of those that have another opinion is, to say the least, rather unpleasant. Out of several dozens of M8 sold in our country, the number returned was zero. You are a minority, and an overly vocal one at that.
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cnguyen
Established
Jorge - Were you the one who were really "worked up" on the M8 issues with open letter to Leica so on and so forth... Were you the one who had an M8 for sale with smthg like ... don't ask me why I'm selling it ? You did the same thing when Leica DMR first come out. I have a chrome Leica M8 on order and pretty much impervious the stupid threads about Leica issues... So why you do need a reality check with M8 now ?
jano
Evil Bokeh
Jorge Torralba said:Oop, I better fix that now
Shouldn't that be M8|8M ?
rvaubel
Well-known
ferider said:
Jorge
Rolands right, why did you put this in "RFF News" ? If I knew I was getting up on my high horse in front of a crowd
But Roland, you must admit my raving was pretty philosophical
Rex
..arf
harmsr
M5 Nut
I am one those hanging in there with the M8 still and love form factor, use of my M lenses, plus the RF shooting style.
This will be a great camera for me once the vertical band is fixed and we have good profiles in a RAW program.
In most situations the M8 performs very well.
My real remaining issue is that Leica needs to fix the new vertical band, whether it be hardware or firmware. It shows up in night street shots with car lights, neon, street lights. That type of scene is something that I happen to enjoy shooting a lot. My film M, D200, and even DLux3 have no issues with that type of shot while the M8 does.
I am continuing to take photos that I like with this camera vs. all test shots.
My dissappointment is that Leica would send the new "fixed" camera out into the world with this issue. All they would have had to do, is take a test shot of anything which caused the old banding and this new vertical line becomes obvious.
The vertical band is something that we should not gloss over, but is something that Leica must fix again. Let us hope that it was planned to be addressed in the 1.10 or higher firmware, although they should have stated so with the delivery of the 1.09 camera. If it requires another hardware change, then Leica completely missed the boat and did insufficient testing again prior to release.
I am hoping for the best and awaiting word from either Leica USA or Leica customer service in Germany.
Ray
This will be a great camera for me once the vertical band is fixed and we have good profiles in a RAW program.
In most situations the M8 performs very well.
My real remaining issue is that Leica needs to fix the new vertical band, whether it be hardware or firmware. It shows up in night street shots with car lights, neon, street lights. That type of scene is something that I happen to enjoy shooting a lot. My film M, D200, and even DLux3 have no issues with that type of shot while the M8 does.
I am continuing to take photos that I like with this camera vs. all test shots.
My dissappointment is that Leica would send the new "fixed" camera out into the world with this issue. All they would have had to do, is take a test shot of anything which caused the old banding and this new vertical line becomes obvious.
The vertical band is something that we should not gloss over, but is something that Leica must fix again. Let us hope that it was planned to be addressed in the 1.10 or higher firmware, although they should have stated so with the delivery of the 1.09 camera. If it requires another hardware change, then Leica completely missed the boat and did insufficient testing again prior to release.
I am hoping for the best and awaiting word from either Leica USA or Leica customer service in Germany.
Ray
Topdog1
Well-known
All the more reason not to be an earlier adopter. I will probably get one eventually, but no rush for now. I'm gald you pioneers are willing to debug this camera for us. I am still amazed that Leica didn't find these problems with their own testing.
/Ira
/Ira
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Topdog1 said:
Yes indeed ... how the hell someone can walk out into their backyard, take a photo and find an immediate problem with a camera that Leica with it's facilities and experience missed ... will continue to be one of life's great mysteries to me!
You wouldn't accept it from a $300.00 point and shoot and you certainly wouldn't be shuffling back to the manufacture's store congratulating them on their efforts as you return it!
Topdog1
Well-known
Keith novak said:Yes indeed ... how the hell someone can walk out into their backyard, take a photo and find an immediate problem with a camera that Leica with it's facilities and experience missed ... will continue to be one of life's great mysteries to me!
You wouldn't accept it from a $300.00 point and shoot and you certainly wouldn't be shuffling back to the manufacture's store congratulating them on their efforts as you return it!
ROFL
Kim Coxon
Moderator
OK, let's not get too negative or in bashing mode. Leica may have made some mistakes and there are problems to iron out but the expectations were perhaps higher than normal. Epson had problems with the RD1 and ran away. Other makers have also had problemswith some models. It doesn't stop the M8 from becoming a very fine and capable camera. Most users have had the opportunity to return their camera and are keeping it.
Kim
Kim
Keith novak said:Yes indeed ... how the hell someone can walk out into their backyard, take a photo and find an immediate problem with a camera that Leica with it's facilities and experience missed ... will continue to be one of life's great mysteries to me!
You wouldn't accept it from a $300.00 point and shoot and you certainly wouldn't be shuffling back to the manufacture's store congratulating them on their efforts as you return it!
cnguyen,
Even in my open letter to Leica I supported the camera. My letter was addressing how they would tend to the customer needs.
Here is a quote from the letter:
In fact, I think my letter may have contributed to the getting two free filters from Leica. I may be wrong but my stink about expecting the consumer to buy a filter may have had an impact. I never said that the M8 was no good or that people are stupid for buying one. Unlike some who just bitch without having anything positive to say.
Even in my open letter to Leica I supported the camera. My letter was addressing how they would tend to the customer needs.
Here is a quote from the letter:
In fact, I think my letter may have contributed to the getting two free filters from Leica. I may be wrong but my stink about expecting the consumer to buy a filter may have had an impact. I never said that the M8 was no good or that people are stupid for buying one. Unlike some who just bitch without having anything positive to say.
Topdog1
Well-known
I'm not bashing Leica in particular. I just love examples of corporate stupidity. This time Leica. Next time - who knows?
/Ira
/Ira
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Kim Coxon said:
I'm not bashing the M8 or Leica Kim ... I'm merely pointing out that there seems to be some anomalies from a company that we all expected better from. I admire Leica hugely for making a digital rangefinder in a world swamped by soulless DSLR's and I would love to own one one day. However, we as a consumer group shouldn't be defending or justifying their actions because we have warm fuzzy feelings about their previous products ... that's their job!
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