Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Oooh! I love a great Sophist/Metaphysical musing.
I posit that "a single picture cannot tell a story" is equivalent to "a picture in a committed relationship implicitly tells a story", for once you marry a story to a picture, you cannot really ever get rid of it.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Because the minority is sometimes right, it doesn't mean that the minority is always right. I mean, there are still minorities who believe that the earth is flat, or that the world is ruled by shape-changing lizards.
You are using, in effect, a homeopathic argument: 'the fewer people who believe something, the more likely it is to be true'. The logical consequence of your argument is that if nobody at all believes that a particular thing is true, then it must be true.
Cheers,
R.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
A concise summary with which few rational people would even attempt to argue. All I'd add is 'an accurate, clear single story'. And I'd emphasize the 'probably' in 'probably not'.
Cheers,
R.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
There is plenty of photographic evidence used to convince the uninformed that the Earth is flat. Try it on a kid, it'll work.
thegman
Veteran
I don't know what side of the argument you are on, but for me, none of those photos tell a story on their own. Even the WTC shot, without knowing the background, it's a burning building with a plane flying past. I remember at the time even watching it on TV some people found it hard to believe two plane flew into the buildings, so with one still, with no background knowledge, I would imagine hardly anyone would guess what actually happened.
Like I say, I'm not sure if those photos are meant to prove or disprove that photos can tell a story, but for me, they don't. Take away background knowledge and context, and you've got pretty much nothing.
In reality though, it does not matter, as we generally all have that background knowledge and can piece things together. The story we put together may be completely inaccurate, but it's a story nonetheless.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
In fact, we invariably have a great deal of background knowledge -- such as speaking the language in which a verbal story is told, or understanding that a photograph is an abstract of reality and was taken at a particular time in a particular place.
Cheers,
R.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
I bet there could be a nice big battle over this one!
Now where is that Vilém Flusser paper???
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
I bet there could be a nice big battle over this one!
Right here. Trying to get through it, but am wondering if there is a point in me doing so, so far... A bit like this thread which time after time has new contributors, who try to make the same flawed point in the same flawed way previous contributors tried to make it...
Sigh.
zauhar
Veteran
Nice selection of images. Each of these of course tells an incomplete story, as even a newspaper article is an incomplete story (just ask anyone who feels "their side" was left out). But each of these renders an important part of the human story in each event.
Randy
dave lackey
Veteran
Well, I certainly agree!
This one, in particular, gives me pause...it tells me volumes about the people, the place (wherever it is), the time and so much more!
http://www.szellemkeponline.hu/wp-content/uploads/lewis_hine_phot_nyc_empire_state__2.jpg
When I was teaching, I would have used this to discuss OSHA and the times before OSHA...yikes!
t6un
Established
There are no stories outside of our minds, therefore the accuracy and clearness attributed to them will always be a subjective and/or conventional value.
The story(stories) on a "Pioneer plaque" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_plaque became quite clear once it was explained to me. Yet most of the Old Testament is still a mystery.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Souljer
Established
Hi,
I don't have time to look at all those photos but I'll try to respond without actually seeing the image you are talking about because something you wrote made me think of something I said in the other thread.
I don't think a photo usually tells a whole story in the sense of we know everything about the people or place; their name, what language they speak, etc. It's not that kind of story. If there is a picture of people running you don't ask, who are they, why are they running, etc. It's a photo not a book. The story is what you see: people running down the street.
I think of photographs as closer to poems rather than novels. You might get some other information from clues in the frame. A city street? Any signage to read? Is someone carrying an iPhone? Maybe current times. Is everyone wearing clown clothes? Maybe the 1970s. Et cetera. No one said it was easy. Just like it does take some skill and practice to read a book. Just like it takes some skill and practice to take good photographs.
As you wrote, though perhaps inaccurate from the actual circumstances of the photograph, there is a story there.
That's how I see it.
I don't have time to look at all those photos but I'll try to respond without actually seeing the image you are talking about because something you wrote made me think of something I said in the other thread.
"Hardly anyone would guess what actually happenend" is not the same as No one could possibly guess or figure it out. But that's not my point, I'm just saying.
That might be true but as you point out in your very next sentence that's actually usually not true. And obviously you have to be able to read and interpret the clues and visual language shown just as you would have to start with a vocabulary and know how to read in order to get the story from a novel.
This is what echos my feelings. I do think pictures can and do tell stories, but I don't think it's always the story the photographer might have wanted to tell. Each person reads a picture through the filter of their own point-of-view and brings their own experience and reference points. So any story has different meanings and different points each reader might relate to.
I don't think a photo usually tells a whole story in the sense of we know everything about the people or place; their name, what language they speak, etc. It's not that kind of story. If there is a picture of people running you don't ask, who are they, why are they running, etc. It's a photo not a book. The story is what you see: people running down the street.
I think of photographs as closer to poems rather than novels. You might get some other information from clues in the frame. A city street? Any signage to read? Is someone carrying an iPhone? Maybe current times. Is everyone wearing clown clothes? Maybe the 1970s.
Et cetera. No one said it was easy. Just like it does take some skill and practice to read a book. Just like it takes some skill and practice to take good photographs.As you wrote, though perhaps inaccurate from the actual circumstances of the photograph, there is a story there.
That's how I see it.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Disagree!
A picture is worth a thousand words, no?
A picture is worth a thousand words, no?
steveniphoto
Well-known
You should re-read the poll.
Anyways, can't wait for the third installment of this series.. some pictures might tell some stories!
ah sorry.. i'll restate by saying "i dont believe a single picture can tell a story."
fair enough, i see your point and agree with it. when i look at the image, all i see is what is there physically. i guess how one defines story plays a big part as well. for me, a story as to have a beginning and an end. without one of those, it does not account for anything. in a single photo, all you see is one moment. a moment that can be as short as 1/1000 or even shorter (depending on many factors). there is no beginning and there is no end and there is no context. all you are left with is what was taken by the camera. hopefully that makes sense, i lost my train of thought halfway through this response
airfrogusmc
Veteran
ah sorry.. i'll restate by saying "i dont believe a single picture can tell a story."
fair enough, i see your point and agree with it. when i look at the image, all i see is what is there physically. i guess how one defines story plays a big part as well. for me, a story as to have a beginning and an end. without one of those, it does not account for anything. in a single photo, all you see is one moment. a moment that can be as short as 1/1000 or even shorter (depending on many factors). there is no beginning and there is no end and there is no context. all you are left with is what was taken by the camera. hopefully that makes sense, i lost my train of thought halfway through this response
I agree.
And what I would go on to say is that how great photographs engage because the photographer has created an engaging imaging using visual tools to hold out interest long enough to, as pointed in an earlier post, create our own stories. So its not the photograph telling the story its each one of us creating a story from out own lifes experiences. A photograph is a frozen moment in time. No beginning, no end.
And to your the statement Andy I have people speak to me everyday and not tell me stories.
Carterofmars
Well-known
I put agree reluctantly, because it can make you wonder what is going on, as this one by Cindy Sherman:
Photo by Cindy Sherman.
I think Sherman is provoking the viewer to ask questions about the subject matter within the image. Through this process the viewer will attempt to answer these questions, and these answers will naturally be empirical by nature.
The single photo does not tell a story. The viewer does in my humble opinion.
She's a great photographer.
--s
Well-known
That is what I thought at the beginning of the first "story"- thread. But while the discussion evolved, I changed my mind due to so many different opinions on the matter.
Now I think the picture and the viewer belong together when it comes to tell a story. The story seems to be a process in which the picture and the interested viewer meet.
zauhar
Veteran
Well, I certainly agree!
This one, in particular, gives me pause...it tells me volumes about the people, the place (wherever it is), the time and so much more!
http://www.szellemkeponline.hu/wp-content/uploads/lewis_hine_phot_nyc_empire_state__2.jpg
When I was teaching, I would have used this to discuss OSHA and the times before OSHA...yikes!
Dave, just think how exciting it would be to sit up there - or take a photo from that vantage point.
Here the incomplete part of the story makes you wonder - did they really do this every day? Did they do it just for the photographer? If they DID do it every day, why? Was there really no other place to sit, or were they proving something?
Many years ago I was at a party with an iron worker in attendance, who got on the ledge of a balcony and boasted 'You couldn't push me off this if you tried!" Maybe some of that attitude in play?
Randy
RedLion
Come to the Faire
A single photo does not tell a story, it invokes one.
Whether it is Barthes' idea of the "punctum" or the concept of the provocative or charged image, if the image triggers something in us, we will fill in the story line details from our own experiences.
Joe
Whether it is Barthes' idea of the "punctum" or the concept of the provocative or charged image, if the image triggers something in us, we will fill in the story line details from our own experiences.
Joe