A Sonnar by any other name

venchka

venchka

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As part of my ritual Saturday night research, I came across the following:

andrew schank, Oct 09, 2001; 07:11 p.m.

As you may know, that lens is a copy of the 85mm f2.0 Zeiss Sonnar originally for the Contax RF camera.
Click to expand...

I say, "Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm."

Flashback: 1967. Armed with a borrowed Contax camera and a large chunk of chrome and glass, with the aid of a very attractive young lady, I made what remains to this day my favorite portrait. Full face which meant minimum focus distance and I'm sure wide open and probably Tri-X, the only other film available to me at the time was Plus-X, and D-76. Scarry sharp. You could count the pores on her cheeks and the hairs in her eyelashes. My C.R.S. is always a problem, but I reckon the large chunk of chrome and glass was a Zeiss 85mm 2.0 Sonnar.

I've been searching for that kind of sharpness and detail resolving power ever since. I wish I could find that negative.

Where you going with this, Wayne?

How close to the original Zeiss 85mm Sonnar is the Nikkor 85? What say ye?
 
Wayne,

I have a Nikkor 85mm/2.0 in LTM, which is a Sonnar lens. Is it the same type as the one you are referring to?

Raid
 
That one

That one

raid said:
Wayne,

I have a Nikkor 85mm/2.0 in LTM, which is a Sonnar lens. Is it the same type as the one you are referring to?

Raid
Click to expand...

Yes. That's the Nikkor lens. Have you ever compred it to the original Zeiss 85/2.0 Sonnar? I'm guessing the lens I borrowed back in 1967 was a pre-war version of the Zeiss 85mm Sonnar. After WWII all of the original Zeiss plants were in East Germany. I think I read that somewhere.

Anyway, I'm looking for any information about a head-to-head match between these two Sonnars.
 
I have both the Zeiss 85/2 and Nikkor 85/2 in Contax mount. I can't tell the images made with these two lenses apart. Both lenses are nice and sharp, and exhibit outstanding OOF rendition.

My two cents.
 
Your $0.02 is appreciated. I've been trying to duplicate the look of the pre-WW II Zeiss 85mm Sonnar since 1967 without success. I may be closer than I think. The Nikkor 85/2.0 in LTM may be the answer. If so, I will have to decide what to do with the C/V 75/2.5 and Elmarit 90/2.8. I certainly won't need all 3.
 
I have both the prewar and postwar (Opton) Sonnars. I had an East German version, but I sold that a couple of years ago.

The postwar has better contrast and weighs a lot less than the prewar version. Otherwise, optically, they're both very close. In fact, all three were very close.

Most of the early Nikon rangefinder lenses were near direct copies of Carl Zeiss lenses.
 
LTM for me

LTM for me

ZeissFan said:
I have both the prewar and postwar (Opton) Sonnars. I had an East German version, but I sold that a couple of years ago.

The postwar has better contrast and weighs a lot less than the prewar version. Otherwise, optically, they're both very close. In fact, all three were very close.

Most of the early Nikon rangefinder lenses were near direct copies of Carl Zeiss lenses.
Click to expand...

The Zeiss lens I briefly handled way back when was a hefty beast to be sure. All chrome over brass and those really big pieces of optical glass. As I recall it was close to square. Just a bit longer than it was round. The Contax body was stout as well.

The Nikkor LTM version is much easier for me to mount on my bodies. Even the oversized ones. 😱
 
I started like you, Wayne, coming from Hasselblad (an old 150mm Sonnar,
well Ernostar).

I can compare my Nikkor to my well collimated ZK 85/2, the latter
being pretty much identical to a war-time real Sonnar in design and coating.

They are similar in signature. But the Nikkor is a little sharper and has a little
bit of "donuts" wide open. The 3D Sonnar effect is clearly there.
At f2.8 the Nikkor is phantastic, like the ZK lens, but higher contrast
and much higher resolution.

The 105 starts off like the ZK, but at higher resolution and more contrast.
No donuts wide open though. Slower than the 85/2, of course, and longer
min. focus distance.

If you want a short, fast tele Sonnar for M mount, and cann't get a good
J-9 or don't like its build, either of the two Nikkors is the way to go.
They are a bit different, but charmingly so. They both feel like
high precision Sonnars.

The other option is to go shorter and get the 50 C ZM.

Best,

Roland (just had great Sushi ...).

PS: you know, maybe it was the girl and not the lens ... 🙂
 
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I just "won" on evilbay an <EP> "Export Paid" Nikkor f2.0 85mm in LTM - w/ finder, both caps, hood and fitted cases for both - all near mint for $299

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=280137882476&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=018

Someone was looking out for me tonight on there, I think 🙂

That`s got to be maybe just double the original cost, that I think was the deal of the year for me.....
I think that`s also telling me something as well - no more gear for a while now my Leica/Canon LTM GAS is most surely on hold for a while for the REST of the summer

Hoooooray! I have my "portrait" lens now!

Get ready Leica IIIC
because I have another mistress lens for you 😀

Tom
 
Last edited:
ferider said:
Congrats, Tom. Welcome to the club of Canon 50/1.5 + Nikkor 85/2
(pair) users.

Cheers,

Roland.
Click to expand...

Yep!

That win really made my weekend 🙂 while I was in contact with the owner all week about it and he finally said that he was very happy to hear it will go to someone
who`s going to "use" it and not let it sit on a shelf somewhere

I have to find a decent modern 43mm UV for it, while I know the Nikkor
originals are as the 50mm "flatties" from Canon IMPOSSIBLE to find

I`ll be sure to POST photos here as soon as I have some done with my IIIC

Tom
 
LeicaTom said:
I just "won" on evilbay an <EP> "Export Paid" Nikkor f2.0 85mm in LTM - w/ finder, both caps, hood and fitted cases for both - all near mint for $299Tom
Click to expand...

I saw that auction, what a great deal! I was tempted, but don't need another 85mm lens. Enjoy the new purchase.
 
LeicaTom said:
Yep!

That win really made my weekend 🙂 while I was in contact with the owner all week about it and he finally said that he was very happy to hear it will go to someone
who`s going to "use" it and not let it sit on a shelf somewhere

I have to find a decent modern 43mm UV for it, while I know the Nikkor
originals are as the 50mm "flatties" from Canon IMPOSSIBLE to find.
Click to expand...

Tom, the 85/2 takes 48mm. Only the 50/1.4 takes 43mm.
You can find good 48mm Hoya HMC UV filters
from a seller in Hong Kong on the bay. Since you also got the hood
which takes Series filters, you can also just put normal 49mm filters into
the hood.

The Canon 40mm is difficult. I use B+W filters that I bought at Adorama
(Skylight and ND). But you have to wait two months, once you
order ...

LeicaTom said:
I`ll be sure to POST photos here as soon as I have some done with my IIIC
Tom
Click to expand...

I was hoping you would ! Cheers,

Roland.
 
ferider said:
Tom, the 85/2 takes 48mm. Only the 50/1.4 takes 43mm.
You can find good 48mm Hoya HMC UV filters
from a seller in Hong Kong on the bay. Since you also got the hood
which takes Series filters, you can also just put normal 49mm filters into
the hood.

The Canon 40mm is difficult. I use B+W filters that I bought at Adorama
(Skylight and ND). But you have to wait two months, once you
order ...



I was hoping you would ! Cheers,

Roland.
Click to expand...

AHHH yes, the old filter game......so ok 85/2 takes 48mm (I`m gonna check my old camera store here - crosses fingers) don`t need any 43mm`s yet hehehehehe
(I still will buy a f1.4 50mm Nikkor when I can find one for under $350)

I do have a 40mm "Flattie" UV on my Canon already....but, I would like some colored ones for fun 🙂 *good luck* finding Canon ones - I should have the lens soon it`s right down the road from me here in Florida, so I`d say in less than 2 weeks I`ll have the lens shot and tested 😉

Tom
 
Ohhh dammm SECRET handshake? I NEED to learn that one 🙂
I already kinda halfassly have the "signature" down right hahahahaaa!

Well, let me ASK Roland....does the club have a name?

Hummm about that whole <EP> thing has about the SAME meaning really
some folks say because of the Japanese language it reads from right to left?
(I personally don`t know, can a Japanese member please shed some light out there?)

"Post Exchange" (Exchange Post) = "Export Paid" but it`s main purpose was to be identifiable at Airport and Custom securities areas (for the Japanese civilian) while in the 1950`s
they were issued heavy sales taxes on Camera Equipment in Japan (till the late 60`s so I`m told) and the US Army and Government Personnel stationed there, didn`t pay this tax, so then hence the <EP> stamped equipment so that the American`s could travel about without hassle
(now there`s a rumor going around that there was a striving BLACK MARKET in <EP> stamped stuff back then)
and I even saw the tops of camera finder shoes with the <EP> logo on them - a less than 5 min change job......
(Canon L and P bodies) and also winder knobs on Nikon`s so, I`m sure there was a business in cheating taxes going on as well.......and I just have this "thing" for seeing the <EP> on my cameras 🙂

Tom
 
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