karlori
Digital Refugee
I have been reading the history of Leica, and find most of the M cameras interesting and intriguing. But I am tainted since the day i held the M6 i have lusted for a camera with the look,feel, quality and if my finances ever allowed the Leica name .
Mudman
Well-known
M6 all the way then. I tried a ZM and while it was nice, it wasn't a leica.
karlori
Digital Refugee
Heh I am leaning towards it . So lets just say i have set on the M6 for a moment, what lens should i get as a beginning lens ? The 50 2.0 ?
Sorry for asking so much questions, but feel like this purchase is the biggest thing after me getting into college .
Sorry for asking so much questions, but feel like this purchase is the biggest thing after me getting into college .
Mudman
Well-known
well that depends on your style of shooting more than anything else. I still say find a place to borrow or rent one, and the 50 and 35mm lenses and see which you like more
Roger Hicks
Veteran
I started with 50mm but as soon as I got a fast 35 (Summilux f/1.4) it became my 'standard'. When it was stolen almost 30 years ago I immediately replaced it with another the same. I'm still using it.
But it's intensely personal. No-one can really tell you whether you'll like 35 or 50 more.
Cheers,
R.
But it's intensely personal. No-one can really tell you whether you'll like 35 or 50 more.
Cheers,
R.
karlori
Digital Refugee
I shot with the 50 on my dead Zorky never tried a 35 or something longer than 50mm on a RF and i doubt i would like it as my standard lens.
can anyone link to some ebay auction/rff classified with the 50 i should be going with ? Thanks in advance !
can anyone link to some ebay auction/rff classified with the 50 i should be going with ? Thanks in advance !
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Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
Hi karlori,
As someone else mentioned, an important fact is if you want a tool or a brand. Even if Leicas are considered to last for longer, they give problems too (sometimes, as any brand...) and you may end up paying their high price (if metered or AE) and more money to repair or CLA them once or periodically.
If you want Leica only, as your budget is short for the M7 and lens or lenses, you can pick the M5 or the M6. The M5 has a narrow meter so you can meter a small area and decide your exposure (spot), and you see your speeds in the viewfinder. The M6 has a more normal metering system. The second version M6 can use TTL flash. M6's are around $1000-$1300, and M5's cheaper.
If you want AE, below the M7 ($4000) there are other two levels in price: the Zeiss Ikon (ZI) $1400, and the Voigtländers (Bessas) $500-$700.
I use three bessas daily, and have had no problem at all. All of them mechanical (no AE). If one day I bought a RF with AE, that would be a Bessa no doubt. The same company produces Bessas and ZI's. There's a cheaper ZI without viewfinder, designed to be used with ultrawideangles and external finders.
What's the difference between those three levels? Basically construction and durability, and a few features, but that doesn't mean the ZI's or the Bessas are bad in any way... They're amazing, well constructed, durable and great cameras, and they even have some advantages over the Leicas (lighter, back door easy film loading and others...) About photography, the three of them take the same photographs and you can use the same lenses on any of them. Bessa's are a line designed to offer different tools to the photographer depending on the kind of lenses used. That's what I like about them. The Bessa R4M/R4A can use ultrawide lenses without external finders, something no Leica can do. The R3M/R3A has a real life size vision viewfinder (1:1) for shooting with both eyes opened...
Another thing is AE... Most experienced photographers prefer not to use AE because scene's metering depend on scene's reflected (not real ambient) light, so if you want great exposures, you need to override AE constantly and change the settings offered by your AE camera, so it ends up being the same as using a camera without AE...
Before the precise camera, and before the precise lens or lenses, you should answer two basic questions:
1. Must your camera be a Leica?
2. Must it have AE?
If you don't decide that, this could continue for months...
Cheers,
Juan
As someone else mentioned, an important fact is if you want a tool or a brand. Even if Leicas are considered to last for longer, they give problems too (sometimes, as any brand...) and you may end up paying their high price (if metered or AE) and more money to repair or CLA them once or periodically.
If you want Leica only, as your budget is short for the M7 and lens or lenses, you can pick the M5 or the M6. The M5 has a narrow meter so you can meter a small area and decide your exposure (spot), and you see your speeds in the viewfinder. The M6 has a more normal metering system. The second version M6 can use TTL flash. M6's are around $1000-$1300, and M5's cheaper.
If you want AE, below the M7 ($4000) there are other two levels in price: the Zeiss Ikon (ZI) $1400, and the Voigtländers (Bessas) $500-$700.
I use three bessas daily, and have had no problem at all. All of them mechanical (no AE). If one day I bought a RF with AE, that would be a Bessa no doubt. The same company produces Bessas and ZI's. There's a cheaper ZI without viewfinder, designed to be used with ultrawideangles and external finders.
What's the difference between those three levels? Basically construction and durability, and a few features, but that doesn't mean the ZI's or the Bessas are bad in any way... They're amazing, well constructed, durable and great cameras, and they even have some advantages over the Leicas (lighter, back door easy film loading and others...) About photography, the three of them take the same photographs and you can use the same lenses on any of them. Bessa's are a line designed to offer different tools to the photographer depending on the kind of lenses used. That's what I like about them. The Bessa R4M/R4A can use ultrawide lenses without external finders, something no Leica can do. The R3M/R3A has a real life size vision viewfinder (1:1) for shooting with both eyes opened...
Another thing is AE... Most experienced photographers prefer not to use AE because scene's metering depend on scene's reflected (not real ambient) light, so if you want great exposures, you need to override AE constantly and change the settings offered by your AE camera, so it ends up being the same as using a camera without AE...
Before the precise camera, and before the precise lens or lenses, you should answer two basic questions:
1. Must your camera be a Leica?
2. Must it have AE?
If you don't decide that, this could continue for months...
Cheers,
Juan
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35mmdelux
Veni, vidi, vici
Many great suggestions. Here's mine: M7 are underrated and under priced. Get one. It is a tight camera -- focus and shoot Leica -- conversely, you can shoot on manual and not use the AE. Budget $1700 +/- for the M7. With the balance get a 50mm Summicron (latest).
karlori
Digital Refugee
Hi Juan,
as i mentioned earlier AE is cool but not a must and not something that i would really need and must have.
A metered camera is a must and seeing i will be parting with my 500CM and 80-150 CF T* lenses i might as well get the m6 and have more funds soon to put towards a lens (seeing as i live in Croatia if i order online i will get the camera in a month or so) . I had my fair share of problems with FED and Zorky, dad used a bessa R2M some time ago and seeing that i must "service" my dSLR every so often (5D and some L's) i really find the must to get "my" leica CLA'd now and then not that big of a problem. In part it is the brand but mostly the tool what i am after, after all getting a leica wold be a paramount moment for me and possibly my photography.
as i mentioned earlier AE is cool but not a must and not something that i would really need and must have.
A metered camera is a must and seeing i will be parting with my 500CM and 80-150 CF T* lenses i might as well get the m6 and have more funds soon to put towards a lens (seeing as i live in Croatia if i order online i will get the camera in a month or so) . I had my fair share of problems with FED and Zorky, dad used a bessa R2M some time ago and seeing that i must "service" my dSLR every so often (5D and some L's) i really find the must to get "my" leica CLA'd now and then not that big of a problem. In part it is the brand but mostly the tool what i am after, after all getting a leica wold be a paramount moment for me and possibly my photography.
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
Great! Then a classic M6 (TTL version only if you're a flash geek figure as great as Ken Rockwell and Bruce Gilden
) and a few great lenses will do... Maybe your title starter kit was a bit humble? The Nokton 35 1.2 by Voigtländer is one of the best lenses ever by any brand, but as you consider buying Leica will have a special meaning for you and your photography, I think you could pick summicrons or summiluxes... Aspherical latest versions are a bit sharper but with a bit busier bokehs...
You'll enjoy a lot!
Cheers,
Juan
W
wblanchard
Guest
I will go out of the sandbox and recommend a new Zeiss Ikon ZM kit with lens and hood that Tony Rose is selling. The 35mm lens is so nice with that kit. You really can't go wrong with the prices lately on it. Great camera!
karlori
Digital Refugee
Great! Then a classic M6 (TTL version only if you're a flash geek figure as great as Ken Rockwell and Bruce Gilden
The Nokton 35 1.2 by Voigtländer is one of the best lenses ever by any brand, but as you consider buying Leica will have a special meaning for you and your photography, I think you could pick summicrons or summiluxes... Aspherical latest versions are a bit sharper but with a bit busier bokehs...
You'll enjoy a lot!
Cheers,
Juan
Maybe it was
but since opening the thread i have 2 possible buyers contact me about the Hasselblad kit. I have learned that no name lenses can be quite a gem now and then so I will got with what the members recommend and will not discriminate by name or origin. Oh and just for info I get a small rash whenever i hear the name Ken Rockwell . So M6 it is ! Now to get them to buy the hassy kit and I am on my way
.
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
M6 is really great... You'll never look back.
Cheers,
Juan
Cheers,
Juan
bhop73
Well-known
I spent a little less than $2500 for my M6 classic, Canon 50mm f/1.4 (and screwmount adapter), and Ultron 28mm f/2. I will probably get a Leica 50mm eventually, but for the time being, i'm happy with what i'm using and don't feel the need for anything else.
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
I spent $4000 for my three Bessas, 15, 28 and 40 Voigtländers, 90 Leica and accessories. A bargain.
Cheers,
Juan
Cheers,
Juan
fotomeow
name under my name
All the above is great advice, but I would warn against the M7 or M6 TTL, simply b/c they are a more complicated camera than the M6 classic or Bessa R2/3M. Not only are they more expensive up front, but they have more potential for breakdown and costlier repairs due to more electronics inside the camera (newer technology, we know is not necessarily good technology). Besides that, I think you said you dont even want AE, and I would support you. Keep It Simple! IMO, learning to take good RF photos has a lot to do with using your own brain rather than a cameras.
If you are determined to get Leica, great. If not, Bessa would be the runner up for bang for the buck. Zeiss Ikon, is too new to the game for RFs IMO. Beside, Cosina produced the Ikon cameras for Zeiss.
I would also say the lens is more important than the camera for IQ. I would much rather have a Leica lens on a CV Bessa, than a CV lens on an M6. And I wouldnt blow all $2500 up front, since you will most likely be trying out different lenses, like the rest of us, to find the one you are really happy with.
IMO: if you have to have the M6, spend $1100 there. Then get 2 50 mm lenses (you said thats your focal length) with the rest of the money and/or have a couple hundred leftover for accessories or the next lens you want to try.
And this may be the best advice I have ever given: go to Sherry Krauter's website, Golden Touch, to see the many fine used Leicas lenses that she has for sale. She has either CLAed them or gave them her blessing to go out into the world to take great pictures.
What we do ask of you, though, is to come back with and tell us the equipment you ultimately decided on, and the pictures to match.
Best of luck!
If you are determined to get Leica, great. If not, Bessa would be the runner up for bang for the buck. Zeiss Ikon, is too new to the game for RFs IMO. Beside, Cosina produced the Ikon cameras for Zeiss.
I would also say the lens is more important than the camera for IQ. I would much rather have a Leica lens on a CV Bessa, than a CV lens on an M6. And I wouldnt blow all $2500 up front, since you will most likely be trying out different lenses, like the rest of us, to find the one you are really happy with.
IMO: if you have to have the M6, spend $1100 there. Then get 2 50 mm lenses (you said thats your focal length) with the rest of the money and/or have a couple hundred leftover for accessories or the next lens you want to try.
And this may be the best advice I have ever given: go to Sherry Krauter's website, Golden Touch, to see the many fine used Leicas lenses that she has for sale. She has either CLAed them or gave them her blessing to go out into the world to take great pictures.
What we do ask of you, though, is to come back with and tell us the equipment you ultimately decided on, and the pictures to match.
Best of luck!
Mablo
Well-known
Absolutely great insight from Juan, Tom A. and everyone else. Thank you all.
35mmdelux
Veni, vidi, vici
Great! Then a classic M6 (TTL version only if you're a flash geek figure as great as Ken Rockwell and Bruce Gilden
Cheers,
Juan
Most Leicas I know of shoot flash. Only the M7TTL and M6TTL have, well, TTL. And only the M7 will shoot faster than 1/50 using the leviathan Metz flash unit. How do you fill-flash at 1/50? Asa 25 film?
robinje
Member
And for super critical shots, use an incident light meter like the tiny and very effective Gossen Digisix. It is so small and convenient, that I use it very frequently to augment the built-in reflective meters in my Leica M7 and CV R4M. This little device takes a lot of guesswork out of tricky scenes if you have time to use it and shoot in manual mode. Otherwise, the M7 on AE is an excellent, very fast tool that is a pleasure to use.
Vics
Veteran
I vote M2 and either the Summicron Dual Range 50 or the Summicron v. IV 35mm. I love my DR and mythology notwithstanding, the vast majority love the 35 v. IV. That will be my next purchase.
Vic
Vic