elmer3.5
Well-known
Hi, Soviet cameras and lenses are very inexpensive, i wonder what should be their price if they were made and marketed today?
I look my fed or my zorki 10 and lenses i own and find sometimes very well done and not to mention lenses capabilities.
Cheers!
I look my fed or my zorki 10 and lenses i own and find sometimes very well done and not to mention lenses capabilities.
Cheers!
payasam
a.k.a. Mukul Dube
There's use value and there's exchange (or market) value. Soviet photo equipment has a good deal of the first only.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
'Cost' in a control economy is all but meaningless. The value of the money is driven by state control, not by supply and demand; there is no need to make a profit; and the old Soviet saying was, "We pretend to work, and they pretend to pay us."
Anyone trying to reproduce Fed and Zorkii tday would have to complete with even more capitalist mechanization (the substitution of capital for labour is one of the definitions of capitalism), and still more importantly they'd need better quality control - the most expensive thing of all in any production process. That's assuming, of course, that there's much of a market left for modern copies of 1930s Contaxes and 1930s Zeiss lenses.
Cheers,
R.
Anyone trying to reproduce Fed and Zorkii tday would have to complete with even more capitalist mechanization (the substitution of capital for labour is one of the definitions of capitalism), and still more importantly they'd need better quality control - the most expensive thing of all in any production process. That's assuming, of course, that there's much of a market left for modern copies of 1930s Contaxes and 1930s Zeiss lenses.
Cheers,
R.
elmer3.5
Well-known
Soviets!
Soviets!
Hi, tell me about soviets, our factory was taken under government control during the sovietic regime in chile 1970-1973, we were persecuted by them, my family had to make rows to get food for us...sorry but i got winded-up
But anyway i saw this fed 5c brand new, supose new old stock, at 50 usd, that´s why i was asking, but yeah you´re right, when soviets come into costs, cost really doesn´t matter...
Bye and cheers!
Soviets!
Hi, tell me about soviets, our factory was taken under government control during the sovietic regime in chile 1970-1973, we were persecuted by them, my family had to make rows to get food for us...sorry but i got winded-up
But anyway i saw this fed 5c brand new, supose new old stock, at 50 usd, that´s why i was asking, but yeah you´re right, when soviets come into costs, cost really doesn´t matter...
Bye and cheers!
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Ouch! You know the answer better than I! Sorry to reopen such memories!
How much would it cost, today, to make a Fed 5c properly so that it worked out of the box? Probably about the same as an MP...
Cheers,
R.
How much would it cost, today, to make a Fed 5c properly so that it worked out of the box? Probably about the same as an MP...
Cheers,
R.
bobby_novatron
Photon Collector
Think about the Bessa rangefinder cameras ... the build quality and the technology that goes into them. They're around $500 USD. What would a Fed / Zorki / Kiev be like if it were manufactured now? Difficult to say. Probably higher than a Bessa, if it was built to very high quality standards.
elmer3.5
Well-known
Another
Another
Thanks Roger, it´s been a long time since that, the bitter menace now comes from chinese damped products
Thanks Bobby 500 usd, that makes sense!
...But tell me do you know the retail price of such cameras back in the days they were "actual"?
What was the price of a canon rf in comparison with these soviet cams? (not to say leica)
Were they sold in the open market say in europe, or were they only for iron curtain partners in exchange for goods?
I would appreciate to take a pic of the reality of those cameras in the past and how they stood in the camera general context.
By the way there´s a large stock offered in ebay, i recently bought a J-12 J-3 already have I-22 and J 8,
I wonder if we are living now in the FSU golden years in terms of availability and price, are the stocks going to end in the coming future or do you think they will last for decades on!
Cheers!
Another
Thanks Roger, it´s been a long time since that, the bitter menace now comes from chinese damped products
Thanks Bobby 500 usd, that makes sense!
...But tell me do you know the retail price of such cameras back in the days they were "actual"?
What was the price of a canon rf in comparison with these soviet cams? (not to say leica)
Were they sold in the open market say in europe, or were they only for iron curtain partners in exchange for goods?
I would appreciate to take a pic of the reality of those cameras in the past and how they stood in the camera general context.
By the way there´s a large stock offered in ebay, i recently bought a J-12 J-3 already have I-22 and J 8,
I wonder if we are living now in the FSU golden years in terms of availability and price, are the stocks going to end in the coming future or do you think they will last for decades on!
Cheers!
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Roger Hicks
Veteran
Prices ex Wallace Heaton Blue Book 1963/4 (exchange rate £1 = $2.80, £1 = 20 shillings, 12 pence = 1 shilling.so £20:11:6d = approx £20.57):
Zorkii 6 £20:11:6d including f/3.5 lens, cassette + case
Fed 2 (no slow speeds) £23:19:6 including f/2.8 lens, cassette + case
Fed 3 (slow speeds) £27:19:6 including f/2.8 lens, cassette + case
Kiev 4 £48:15:0d including f/2 lens, cassette + case
Werra III (RF) £41:17:0d with f/2.8 Tessar
Werra IV (RF + meter) £58:15:4d.
Canon 7 body only £89:8:6d (with f/0.95, £223:15:8d)
M2 body only £103:13:2d
M3 body only £121:19:6d.
The Zorkii and Fed carry the same warnings: "While not of particularly smooth finish, it represents good value."
Pentax SV with f/1.8 Super-Takumar £99:18:9d.
Nikon F Photomic with f/2 Nikkor, £175:16:1d
Bulls-Eye Contarex with f/2 Planar: £246:4:0d.
Comparing the basically 1930s design of the Kiev with the (I think) 1980s design of the Bessas does not mean very much. One was designed when skilled labour (for assembly) was cheap, and automation was very modest. The other was designed to be assembled as quickly, cheaply and automatically as possible. That's why I said the price of one of these cameras might approach that of an MP if it were made properly.
Cheers,
R.
Zorkii 6 £20:11:6d including f/3.5 lens, cassette + case
Fed 2 (no slow speeds) £23:19:6 including f/2.8 lens, cassette + case
Fed 3 (slow speeds) £27:19:6 including f/2.8 lens, cassette + case
Kiev 4 £48:15:0d including f/2 lens, cassette + case
Werra III (RF) £41:17:0d with f/2.8 Tessar
Werra IV (RF + meter) £58:15:4d.
Canon 7 body only £89:8:6d (with f/0.95, £223:15:8d)
M2 body only £103:13:2d
M3 body only £121:19:6d.
The Zorkii and Fed carry the same warnings: "While not of particularly smooth finish, it represents good value."
Pentax SV with f/1.8 Super-Takumar £99:18:9d.
Nikon F Photomic with f/2 Nikkor, £175:16:1d
Bulls-Eye Contarex with f/2 Planar: £246:4:0d.
Comparing the basically 1930s design of the Kiev with the (I think) 1980s design of the Bessas does not mean very much. One was designed when skilled labour (for assembly) was cheap, and automation was very modest. The other was designed to be assembled as quickly, cheaply and automatically as possible. That's why I said the price of one of these cameras might approach that of an MP if it were made properly.
Cheers,
R.
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elmer3.5
Well-known
Got it!
Got it!
Roger, GREAT! nice pic you posted!
Bye!
Got it!
Roger, GREAT! nice pic you posted!
Bye!
wolves3012
Veteran
Roger,
Those prices are fascinating! Especially to see that the likes of an M2 body was only about double that of a Kiev and similar to the Pentax. Somehow don't think they are in the same relation nowadays! My father bought a Kiev 4 in the mid-seventies and I thought he paid less than that price, though I may be mistaken and don't have the receipt (though I do have the camera, still working). I'm assuming FED/Zorki models were available then but I don't recall him considering them, perhaps they weren't as commonly available.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Don't forget to allow for with/without lens, etc., and allow that an ERC for the Bullseye was over £10. The Zorkii 4 and 4K were (as far as I recall, which isn't always very far, especially after dinner, though I've not had my digestif yet) and Kiev was always a better made, better finished and more expensive camera until the very end of the Soviet camera era.
Cheers,
R.
Dralowid
Michael
My first Leica came from Wallace Heaton second hand department in August 1965.
I was 15 and it was a very big present.
Leica III black with uncoated Elmar and hood.
Serviced with 12 months warranty £35/10/00 ie £35.50.
I still have and use it but the original hood is long gone.
At the time it never occured to me to buy a Fed although I did consider a Reid but they were way too expensive.
So, with that budget what would you have chosen in 1965?
Michael
I was 15 and it was a very big present.
Leica III black with uncoated Elmar and hood.
Serviced with 12 months warranty £35/10/00 ie £35.50.
I still have and use it but the original hood is long gone.
At the time it never occured to me to buy a Fed although I did consider a Reid but they were way too expensive.
So, with that budget what would you have chosen in 1965?
Michael
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Michael,
Well, in 1966 - you and I are the same age, near enough, 'cos I was born on the middle day of the middle month of the middle year of the century - my father bought me a second-hand Pentax SV for £50 in Bermuda. I didn't get into Leicas until 1969 when (on my advice) my 17-year-old girlfriend bought a Leica II for £20. A few weeks later I bought a IIIa (which I still have) for £30.
Cheers,
R.
Well, in 1966 - you and I are the same age, near enough, 'cos I was born on the middle day of the middle month of the middle year of the century - my father bought me a second-hand Pentax SV for £50 in Bermuda. I didn't get into Leicas until 1969 when (on my advice) my 17-year-old girlfriend bought a Leica II for £20. A few weeks later I bought a IIIa (which I still have) for £30.
Cheers,
R.
elmer3.5
Well-known
Nice!
Nice!
Well, nice dialog, very illustrating!
Yesterday received a J-12, i´m very impressed.
I was surprised for the price of the Werra IV, what do you think of it´s quality? Can it be compared with it´s occidental peers?
In Chile we find from time to time lenses and cameras that were overwhelmed by the digital tsumani, but inevitably they are starting to raise it´s prices due to internet.
I don´t find much of soviet cameras, i think it´s because of the dictatorship during 1973 and 1990. By the end of it, the USSR was kaputt also.
Bye!
Nice!
Well, nice dialog, very illustrating!
Yesterday received a J-12, i´m very impressed.
I was surprised for the price of the Werra IV, what do you think of it´s quality? Can it be compared with it´s occidental peers?
In Chile we find from time to time lenses and cameras that were overwhelmed by the digital tsumani, but inevitably they are starting to raise it´s prices due to internet.
I don´t find much of soviet cameras, i think it´s because of the dictatorship during 1973 and 1990. By the end of it, the USSR was kaputt also.
Bye!