ADOX Silvermax first photos / samples

For what it is worth, I think the film looks pleasing enough. Just curious how forgiving it is before I pick up some 🙂

Mind commenting on this Girmantas?
 
Chriscrawfordphoto said:
I wondered why they came out with a special developer when there are so many good developers available already. My original thought was it was one of those really high contrast films (like tech pan) that needed special chemistry to bring the contrast down to normal levels, but Adox says its based on AGFA APX-100, which is a normal 100-speed film.
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From the german aphog - dirctly from fotoimpex.
Code: 
 Zeiten für andere Filmentwickler bei 20°C:   ADONAL/Rodinal 1+25: 8 Min.  
ADONAL/Rodinal 1+50: 12 Min.  
ATOMAL: 8-10 Min. 
 D 76/ID 11: 9 Min. 
HC-110: 7 Min.  
FX-39: 8 Min. 
XTOL: 7 Min. 

 Kipprhythmus: Die ersten 30 Sekunden kippen und danach 4 mal die Minute. Für andere Entwickler als Startzeit die Angabe für APX 100 verwenden und in 10% Schritten reduzieren!
The reason for "extra" developer is there explaint because the "Silvermax -Set" is an offer for "film-beginners" which have no experience with film developing 😉

new developer just a marketing gimmick to bring in more $$?
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honi soit qui mal y pense. 😉

But now some totally different: Has anybody tried to develop the Silvermax as a BW Silde Film . IMHO the the clear transparent filmbase cries for such a try.
 
Thanks for posting — interesting results. To me it looks like a multilayer octahedral type grain, which for most people is what used to be called conventional grain type.

They actually look quite grainy and the highlights look quite heavy (but smooth), so I don't think it is a slower film with a long scale low contrast developer like CMS, I think it is a faster film in the 100-200 range, probably 2 layer cubic type.
I couldn't guess the developer type, I doubt it's low contrast, probably high activity if anything in order to develop the cubic grains internal image (commonplace) and increase efficiency (effective photographic speed).

When it becomes available I'll develop it in Rodinal, D76 and the Silvermax in a side by side test-might cut a film into three.
I'll also process some APX 100 in Silvermax to see if there are similarities.

Promising first look, though not sure about the apparent grain in the mid tones, whether that's the scan or part of the structure of the film.
 
Trius said:
The most important question hasn't been asked: Is it available in sheets? 😀
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From the PK: No unfortunatelly they cut the first charge they bought only in 135 films 🙁 . The second charge shall be cut also in roll fims (120) . So I hope they sell their first charge fast 🙁 * * I need some "like APX 100" roll films. I have enought original APX 135 films in my fridge 😉
 
veraikon said:
From the PK: No unfortunatelly they cut the first charge they bought only in 135 films 🙁 . The second charge shall be cut also in roll fims (120) . So I hope they sell their first charge fast 🙁 * * I need some "like APX 100" roll films. I have enought original APX 135 films in my fridge 😉
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As much as I myself would welcome the introduction of an APX100 "lookalike" in 120 format, I fear it's not gonna happen so easily. Because of the different requirements in base material thickness, film that has been coated on a 35mm base cannot be cut to produce 120 film.
As Mirko from Adox/Impex has made clear, the project was at least in part made feasible by the availability of cheap NOS 35mm base material (triacetate), a leftover from the Agfaphoto insolvency in 2005. Producing Silvermax in 120 would mean a new coating run with fresh (= expensive) base material which would result in a different price point for that product. While it is certainly feasible from a purely technical point of view, the question is whether it would be economically viable when considering the achievable market price for such a product in a competitive market like the film market. As the project is funded by third parties, the hurdles for realization are rather high, unfortunately. The same would be true for a second coating run in 35mm (it is said that current stocks of Silvermax will last for several years to come, so I conclude that all of the cheap NOS base material that was available has been used up by now, but I might be wrong). So (if I understand Mirko correctly) the baseline is: if Silvermax turns out to be a huge success, then, and only then, new coating runs with different formats will come into consideration.
 
joeswe said:
As much as I myself would welcome the introduction of an APX100 "lookalike" in 120 format, I fear it's not gonna happen so easily. Because of the different requirements in base material thickness, film that has been coated on a 35mm base cannot be cut to produce 120 film.
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I understand what Mirko was saying when he stated that, but in actual fact it isn't quite true.
In 2006 after Agfa had folded Rolleiflilm bought a master roll of APX 100 coated on a 135 CTA base which was destined to be 35mm (The same base as Adox are using for Silvermax).
Because of the abundance of 35mm film they sent the 54" Master roll to Fotokemika too be slit and confectioned to 120 size and released it as Rollei retro 120.
I used about 20 rolls of the Retro and although it was a lot thicker than the Agfa APX 120 it caused no problems with any of my cameras.

This was taken on the 135 thickness material cut to 120.

101210288.jpg


So yes you can cut a master coated for 35mm to 120, Rollei did it recently.
 
Photo_Smith said:
I understand what Mirko was saying when he stated that, but in actual fact it isn't quite true.
In 2006 after Agfa had folded Rolleiflilm bought a master roll of APX 100 coated on a 135 CTA base which was destined to be 35mm (The same base as Adox are using for Silvermax).
Because of the abundance of 35mm film they sent the 54" Master roll to Fotokemika too be slit and confectioned to 120 size and released it as Rollei retro 120.
I used about 20 rolls of the Retro and although it was a lot thicker than the Agfa APX 120 it caused no problems with any of my cameras.

So yes you can cut a master coated for 35mm to 120, Rollei did it recently.
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I don't doubt it worked for you, but others had problems with that film. It is not pure chance that this film is no longer with us, in spite of the mass of APX100 material that is still available.

http://www.apug.org/forums/viewpost.php?p=1396534
 
joeswe said:
I don't doubt it worked for you, but others had problems with that film. It is not pure chance that this film is no longer with us, in spite of the mass of APX100 material that is still available.

http://www.apug.org/forums/viewpost.php?p=1396534
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We had no reports of trouble with that film, and the reason it is no longer available is that there are no more uncut master rolls of APX 100 available. There was just one single master roll available at the time sequestrators moved into Leverkusen.

All the other rolls of APX 100 had already been confectioned as 135 and put into store-hence the wider availability of that size (and the reason Rollei had the only uncut roll made into 120)

Posting the link that re-iterates Mirko's incorrect assumption that 135 CTA can't be used isn't helpful-he's wrong. Many firms in the last 100 years have coated 120 on a thicker base it's silly to say otherwise.
Take a look at Ilford Delta 3200 both 35mm stock and 120 are coated on the same 0.125/5mm CTA base (similar to Silvermax base) so it can be done!

More likely is they (Fotoimpex) can only afford to coat one master and that is destined for 135, the 120 can't be used on a thicker base is an excuse to placate rather than a fact.
 
Well, hopefully you can prove Fotomika wrong too and decide that their machinery is repairable.

On apug Mirko said "120 spooling machines (for sure ours) will reject this base as the diameter of the film will be out of tolerance" (emphasis mine). He is building a very smart factory to make smaller runs of film, perhaps some of the expertise in this thread should be brought to bear on his machinery?
 
Photo_Smith said:
Posting the link that re-iterates Mirko's incorrect assumption that 135 CTA can't be used isn't helpful-he's wrong. Many firms in the last 100 years have coated 120 on a thicker base it's silly to say otherwise.
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Well, maybe you're right and Mirko is silly and wrong when he says that there was never a 120 film on 35mm film triacetate base and so on. Unfortunately, it doesn't make a difference. It is a fact and Mirko has made it very clear there will be no Silvermax 120 on that base, because their spooling machines cannot handle it. So we're back to square one: Silvermax 120 will require coating on a different base with the known consequences (new raw materials, new funding etc).
 
Photo_Smith said:
More likely is they (Fotoimpex) can only afford to coat one master and that is destined for 135, the 120 can't be used on a thicker base is an excuse to placate rather than a fact.
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Don't you realize you're contradicting yourself? First you say that it is no problem to cut a 120 from a 35mm master, then you say the real problem is they can only afford one master roll. Well if it wasn't a problem to produce 120 from that same base, what keeps them from taking half of that master roll and cut it into 120?

Then you say, the actual problem is funding, well of course the real problem is funding, that's what Mirko was saying all along (if you followed his statements carefully). No need to cover that up. If funding was not a problem than they could have done a second coating run for 120 on the proper base material right from the start. But indeed funding is a problem and that is why there will be no 120 unless the 35mm version sells so well that they can stem the funding (and see a viable market for 120)... :bang:
 
joeswe said:
Well, the thickness is the problem, their spooling machines can't handle it, period.
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So he says– but obviously Ilford's can, Kodak's can, the slitting knives at Fotokemika can because they confectioned the 135 CTA APX.

if their spooling machines are made by the same company Ilfords are, they can handle it (and they probably are made by Swiss company TSE Troller AG) then it's possible.
First it's not possible to coat and no one has done this successfully, obviously untrue as two current films share 135 CTA bases
I like Mirko he's a great guy, so he can do what he wishes it's his capital.
But why not just be truthful, it costs 80k to coat a master roll that gives a yield of 45k films (presuming standard 54" 11k ft rolls), they probably don't have the capital to make two batches.

Not that it's impossible...
 
joeswe said:
Don't you realize you're contradicting yourself? First you say that it is no problem to cut a 120 from a 35mm master, then you say the real problem is they can only afford one master roll. Well if it wasn't a problem to produce 120 from that same base, what keeps them from taking half of that master roll and cut it into 120?
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How am I contradicting myself? It is a fact you can cut a 135 master to 120 many companies use the same base to cut 35mm and 120.

You ask the question yourself why don't they cut 120 from the 35mm base?

The answer is rather than being technically impossible as Mirko states, the reason is financial.
How is that so hard to understand for you?
 
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