Advice for a student and film lover! [Film Leica Advice]

[Bingley]

In terms of price, the best bang for the Leica M buck is an M2 -- current prices range between $550 and $750. Buy one in good condition, and budget for a CLA. Clean, uncluttered VF and framelines. An M2 works beautifully with a 50 (you can see outside the framelines, even if you wear glasses, like me) and it gives you the option for a 35 later on. Saving some money on the M body, I'd then invest in better glass. I agree with mfogiel's advice, but you have a lot of choices in a 50 lens. With your budget, and having spent around $900 for an M2 and CLA, you would still have enough left for a rigid 'chron. I'd also get a small meter to bring along; I regularly use a digisix, which gives you the option of incident and reflective readings.

 

[oceanpriest]

If it's me, I would get iiif and elmar/summitar collapsible

 

[MISH]

lots of good advice here...... my 2 cents from my experience.... I have and can recommend
the M3 but also don't overlook the M4-p, it is basically a M6 without the meter and now that I have glasses I find it very comfortable to use.

Now if I was a student with a love of Cartier-Bresson and was saving for some sort of super expensive digital gizmo here's what I would do (it took me 20 years to figure this out.... please don't wait that long) BUY A BARNACK...... once you get past the fear of loading it the fun to cost ratio is unbelievable... as far as things with the Leica name on it they are quite the bargain. Every time I use my IIIf I feel like I am handling a jewel. I have several M cameras to chose from but my IIIf gets a lot of use.
Cartier-Bresson and many others took some of their best shots with a screwmount camera.

another dealer to look at is Stan Tamarkin

 

[david.elliott]

Other places to buy ---

Tamarkin
Igor camera
leicashop
ffordes
rff classifieds (obviously)

And dont fuss much about cosmetic condition of the camera. I bought my m3 for $375 a few years ago because it is all dented up and ugly ugly. Sent it to dag for a cla and it functions beautifully. I would budget for a cla though. Obviously run a few rolls through the camera when you get it to see if the camera even needs to be serviced. No sense wasting money. 😛 But budget for one, just in case.

Thanks for all the responses! So I generally shoot with a 50 as it is, my D800 almost always has my Nikkor 50mm 1.4g attached to it. This next project will be a little more aimed at portraiture, people, candids, and even a little self portraiture (whelp).

I am thinking an unmetered M is going to happen. I will probably end up picking up a few of these as the years go by, I have a lot of love and respect for early Leica! I love the shot of the dog! Gorgeous!

As for reputable stores, are there any I should be looking at aside from KEH, B&H, and Adorama?

Edit:

I do not wear glasses, but thank you for the info. I would possibly be interested in 35 later on, but really 50 is where I generally stay.

 

[baisao]

In homage to H.C-B. (or Stanley Kubrick) you might consider beginning with a Barnack and then stepping into an M. I have an M6 but I still do a little happy dance every time I use my IIIc. A IIIg is very nice too, if you can find one. A collapsible 50mm Summitar or Summicron, and a 90mm Elmar. Together, they will cost less than an M have a classic look. To my surprise, most of my favorite photos have come from my IIIc, not my M6.

Barnacks are persnickety to load at first and are completely manual, but the workflow is even slower than with an M6, which I feel can be a good thing. These old Barnacks are bulletproof and I have seen many in fine condition. I also think the form factor is more comfortable than with an M. These are the cameras that put Leica on the map.

For metering, I use a Sekonic L-398A Studio Deluxe III. No dependence on batteries and the interface makes calculating exposures more intuitive. I have a Sekonic L-758DR Digital Master, but the Studio Deluxe has been better for learning. Sure, I can’t meter after sunset, but I use the onboard meter of the M6 when I am shooting at night.

 

[Seraj]

Funds providing I foresee myself being somewhat of a collector of german cameras, there is just something about them. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy my japanese big boys for some of the work I do, my D800 hasn't failed me yet, but they lack the elegance.

Well I hope a good M3 pops up! I wish KEH listed serial number, I want one 950,000 or higher. Also taking a look at the M5's in classified's, rather pretty if I do say so and I have big hands, but thats not too much of a decider.

Edit:

Is there a good site to read up on the different Sumicron Lenses? Im curious if there are any reasons NOT to get say a collapsable one, seems kind of nice to have. I love the look of the Rigid ones I've seen though.

 

[RomanV]

If you find one collapsible in a good shape - take it! You will not be disappointed🙂
Stephen has a grate starting point for various rangefinders and lenses:
http://www.cameraquest.com/classics.htm

 

[Seraj]

If you find one collapsible in a good shape - take it! You will not be disappointed🙂
Stephen has a grate starting point for various rangefinders and lences:
http://http://www.cameraquest.com/classics.htm

URL isn't working?

Random curiosity, what exactly about the M6/M7 do people not seem to like? I see that the M6 does come in a nice magnification on some models .85? Is it just how different they are from the classic leicas? are there also issues in their build/durability?

I'd still rather a classic, but that really nice condition M6 TTL (not that I use flash on my film cams ever) .85 in black is sexy and tempting.

 

[RomanV]

I've corrected the link.

With M6 you will not be dissappointed as well. Why it isn't so liked? I don't know. Some people likes oranges, others likes chips 🙂 Start with any one camera listed in this thread and in a very short period of time you will understand is it for you or not.

Have fun!
Roman

 

[froyd]

If you insist on an M3 (and there many worse ways to go, especially if you prefer 50s), you'll always have the option to mount a 35 with goggles, which preserves the dimension of the 50 frame lines. Goggles make the camera a little bulkier, but allow for slightly closer focus, and are generally cheaper than non-goggled versions of the same lens (which you could only use on the M3 by resorting to an external VF or mental extrapolation of there the field of view would be.

Finally, a plug for the Bessa R3M. You say you want a camera for life. I'd wager a brand new R3M and a 50 years old M3 will be both in equally working shape 20-30 years from now (speaking as an owner of both brands). The bessa give you a better VF brighter and truly 1:1, the option to turn the meter on or off, but at the cost of a less pleasant tactile experience.

 

[Richard G]

M6 in 0.72 finder and a 50 Summicron would be fine and sensible. Otherwise an M2. Having the meter is convenient, especially if you haven't already been using a hand held meter. NOT having a meter in the M Leica is also ergonomically advantageous: no distracting LEDs. Pre-meter the scene and set exposure and aperture before raising the camera to your eye. Learning Sunny 16 and other remembered exposure settings and adjustments.

The M2 framelines for 50 and 35 are unbeatable. Can't understand the M3 hype, I really can't. I hate the M3 50 frame lines. I was shocked to see those quaint round corners. Any M3 desire I ever had was cured in seconds of first looking through the VF. M2 for me, definitely.

There is nothing wrong with the build quality of the M6. It is probably the most successful model of all the Ms. Some more modern materials make it better. My problem with the shutter button is the very long throw to trip the shutter. A softie attachment cures that.

I like the M5, but you are too classically inclined to do that. And much as the ZI is praised it is a much better camera for a previous Leica user. If you never had a Leica you aren't cured of the desire by getting an Ikon.

 

[ottluuk]

---
This next project will be a little more aimed at portraiture, people, candids, and even a little self portraiture (whelp).

---

As far as selfies go, it's probably worth noting that self-timers were rooted out after the M5. You'd need a long cable release or one of those little clockwork thingies that screw into the cable release socket.

The M2 came in versions both with and without a self timer - not sure about the M3.

 

[daniel_aj7]

I currently own a 0.72 magnification M6 and an M2. To be honest if you do not mind using a meterless camera, get the classic Ms. The weight and feel is much better and they feel like they are built better. I think it's only a matter of feel though, as I'm pretty sure they are both well built. I think it has to do with the vulcanite on the M2. It makes the camera feel more rugged than the leather on the M6. I use the M2 with a VC meter2 and just leave it in the hotshoe.
The M6 is a lot more convenient to use simply because of its internal meter. Personally I don't see anything wrong with an M6 and I'm sure you wont be disappointed with anyone you pick.

 

[thegman]

URL isn't working?

Random curiosity, what exactly about the M6/M7 do people not seem to like? I see that the M6 does come in a nice magnification on some models .85? Is it just how different they are from the classic leicas? are there also issues in their build/durability?

I'd still rather a classic, but that really nice condition M6 TTL (not that I use flash on my film cams ever) .85 in black is sexy and tempting.

Nothing wrong with the M6, just that there are classics, and CLASSICS, the M3 is the latter. Some don't like the DX reader and electronic bits of the M7, but never used one personally.

No issues I'm aware of in build/durability, in fact, I'd probably trust an M6 more simple because it's newer.

 

[baisao]

I hear lots of noise about finder flare in the M6 but in my experience it is a rare thing. I noticed it right off on the first 12 shots with my M6, then it seemed to go away, only returning when shooting streets at night.

I have an early M6 Classic and I am really fond of it. I agree with the comment about it needing a softie. It feels solid, though not as solid as a Barnack. Workflow is still slow but faster than a meterless M, unless you are good at setting exposure by intuition.

The M6 is a great film camera!

 

[bean_counter]

I settled on an M4-P; good bang for the buck, with flexibility for wides (28 & 35). I use a Sekonic L-308, works great and fits in a shirt pocket. I have the L-208 too, but I don't get consistent incident results from it - it mostly stays in the bag.

A IIIf, Elmar 50/3.5 collapsible, and an SBOOI finder is a really nice walking around combo. The SBOOI is fun, it's 1.0 magnification, shoot with both eyes open and the lines just kind of "float" out there for you. I often travel with the Elmar or a VC 50/1.5 on a IIIf, and a 35 on the M.

 

[Murchu]

Random curiosity, what exactly about the M6/M7 do people not seem to like?

Nice camera, and one is only nitpicking really, pointing out things they don't like. I miss mine, and would love to have another some day. That said, I was never overly fond of the slippery grip, the occasional rangefinder patch flare, cluttered framelines in the finder. I also found the meter to be a distraction, whereas with my M3, I can simply focus completely on my subject when I left the camera to my eye. These are all small, and highly personal things though, and given the great cameras M's are, such small and highly personal things are usually the things that distinguish the models for most users (such as the rounded 50mm framelines in the M3, which personally I love).

 

[Seraj]

Yeah from the examples I've seen the frame lines don't bother me that much, but then again maybe its just lack of experience.

An early serial M3 wouldn't have a self timer would it?

 

[Jockos]

Yeah from the examples I've seen the frame lines don't bother me that much, but then again maybe its just lack of experience.

An early serial M3 wouldn't have a self timer would it?

Mine 8000000+ serial has at least. You should be able to see a lever on the picture of the camera in question. It's on the same side as the lens mount release button.

Also a suggestion would be to check with Youxin Ye and Sherry Krauter if they have any cameras for sale, then you won't have to send the off for CLA in a good while 🙂

 

[sepiareverb]

M6 classic and a 50/2 or a ZM 1.4.

Or, an M2, M4-2/P and the same lens.

No self timer, but not the end of the world.

An M5 is not a bad option at all- plenty of "old time" build quality there.

The M6 has a meter when you want it- but doesn't need batteries. As much as learning to shoot without a meter was a right of passage for those of us over a certain age it is little needed anymore. No digital body will ever arrive without a meter, so the knowledge is moot for anything other than film. And having spent as many hours in the darkroom as I have I'd say better negatives are absolutely worth it- even when learning.

An M6 will last plenty long, and if you've the bug already the M6 won't be your last film M.