Avotius
Some guy
Over the last few years I get more and more pokes telling me I need to do my own photo book.
I am not totally adverse to the idea but I dont know the first thing about doing something like that. What I do have however is 7 years worth of photos taken around China, mostly in areas outsiders overlook.
I do know that if I want to do a book I need to first come up with a concept and a general plan and layout of the book including sorting out which images I want to use that are appropriate to my concept.
What I dont quite understand as I look into the whole book making process is the part about printing and publishing. These will be some really noob questions so go easy on me.
1. Obviously if I want to find a publisher I need to find one that has a history of turning out photo books with subjects of interest similar to my concept. My old professor said I need to seriously look towards the top at Phaidon or National Geographic to publish my book. I have looked at some publisher websites and they have areas where you can submit books for consideration. I have also read they rarely ever accept a book like this and that is is better to get in contact with them while developing your book to get a kind of relationship with them before dropping the book on them out of the blue. Does this sound right? Any advice?
2. My wife (who is Chinese) says I should look into a Chinese publisher to release my book. It is much easier, she even is coming up with a book to submit to a publisher about our life together. The thing that makes me apprehensive about that is that they offer very little money (although I don't think a foreign publisher would be any better) also I am thinking about location and my audience. I have always thought of my photo audience to be people outside of China, and I figured that it would be better to release a book outside of China where there would possibly be more interest.
3. When it comes to printing the book. I seem to see a lot of Chinese publishers want it make with Adobe InDesign. Fair enough. Same outside of China? Also when it comes to actually printing the book, who usually pays for such things?
4. I have seen a lot of people self publishing books. This doesnt seem to be the right way to go for me. One because I dont have the capital to do it, but also because if I am going to make a book I would like to see a copy or two sell. Naturally I understand I am not going to be making any money really on this book so I am not delusional that I will make a book, get it published by some publisher and make 50,000 dollars on it by next week. Anyway....why are people self publishing photos books and what is the advantage of this?
5. I reserve the right to leave this space empty and stick another question in because I am sure something else will come up.
I am not totally adverse to the idea but I dont know the first thing about doing something like that. What I do have however is 7 years worth of photos taken around China, mostly in areas outsiders overlook.
I do know that if I want to do a book I need to first come up with a concept and a general plan and layout of the book including sorting out which images I want to use that are appropriate to my concept.
What I dont quite understand as I look into the whole book making process is the part about printing and publishing. These will be some really noob questions so go easy on me.
1. Obviously if I want to find a publisher I need to find one that has a history of turning out photo books with subjects of interest similar to my concept. My old professor said I need to seriously look towards the top at Phaidon or National Geographic to publish my book. I have looked at some publisher websites and they have areas where you can submit books for consideration. I have also read they rarely ever accept a book like this and that is is better to get in contact with them while developing your book to get a kind of relationship with them before dropping the book on them out of the blue. Does this sound right? Any advice?
2. My wife (who is Chinese) says I should look into a Chinese publisher to release my book. It is much easier, she even is coming up with a book to submit to a publisher about our life together. The thing that makes me apprehensive about that is that they offer very little money (although I don't think a foreign publisher would be any better) also I am thinking about location and my audience. I have always thought of my photo audience to be people outside of China, and I figured that it would be better to release a book outside of China where there would possibly be more interest.
3. When it comes to printing the book. I seem to see a lot of Chinese publishers want it make with Adobe InDesign. Fair enough. Same outside of China? Also when it comes to actually printing the book, who usually pays for such things?
4. I have seen a lot of people self publishing books. This doesnt seem to be the right way to go for me. One because I dont have the capital to do it, but also because if I am going to make a book I would like to see a copy or two sell. Naturally I understand I am not going to be making any money really on this book so I am not delusional that I will make a book, get it published by some publisher and make 50,000 dollars on it by next week. Anyway....why are people self publishing photos books and what is the advantage of this?
5. I reserve the right to leave this space empty and stick another question in because I am sure something else will come up.
Avotius
Some guy
Another question.
As with a lot of people I have put some of my photos online. Lately I have even been thinking of putting together a kind of photo bog. Would a publisher look down upon this, as in thinking the photos have already been "out there" and they dont get exclusive first shots at them?
As with a lot of people I have put some of my photos online. Lately I have even been thinking of putting together a kind of photo bog. Would a publisher look down upon this, as in thinking the photos have already been "out there" and they dont get exclusive first shots at them?
user237428934
User deletion pending
4.) A very cheap way of self publishing is via blurb.com. You design your photobook with their software and then you just publish it. Now you can promote your book online and people can order your book via the blurb bookstore. You can set whatever price you want for the book. There are no initial costs.
j j
Well-known
1. Yes, success by this route is rare, but no harm trying.
2. If you can find an interested publisher in China, I would advise you go for it. Companies in China seem to be able to sell outside the country well enough. Publishers I have worked for save the text separate from the rest of the book to ease any future translation, so no language issues.
3. InDesign has pretty much taken over from Quark in recent years. I would expect, though, that the publisher would take care of the design and preparation and you provide the content. Publishers pic up the tab and pay you either a one-off amount for the content or a cut based on sales.
4. As tom.w.bn said, you no longer need to stump up advance cash for self-publishing or store boxes of books pending sales (although you can still do so if you wish). The other aspect is control: if you self-publish you produce the book as you want it instead of the book your publisher wants.
5. Doubt this would be a problem.
2. If you can find an interested publisher in China, I would advise you go for it. Companies in China seem to be able to sell outside the country well enough. Publishers I have worked for save the text separate from the rest of the book to ease any future translation, so no language issues.
3. InDesign has pretty much taken over from Quark in recent years. I would expect, though, that the publisher would take care of the design and preparation and you provide the content. Publishers pic up the tab and pay you either a one-off amount for the content or a cut based on sales.
4. As tom.w.bn said, you no longer need to stump up advance cash for self-publishing or store boxes of books pending sales (although you can still do so if you wish). The other aspect is control: if you self-publish you produce the book as you want it instead of the book your publisher wants.
5. Doubt this would be a problem.
gekopaca
French photographer
Self-publishing isn't a real publishing.
A real publishing is a recognition by the professionals and the public.
Self-publishing can be ridiculous, sometimes pretentious, always very expensive (if you want professional quality).
If you're a very very good photographer, you should show your pictures to editors, to galleries, and you will be published and exposed.
If you are only a good photographer, but if want to show your work to most people (and it's a good goal), you should make your own website (and it may be free!).
A real publishing is a recognition by the professionals and the public.
Self-publishing can be ridiculous, sometimes pretentious, always very expensive (if you want professional quality).
If you're a very very good photographer, you should show your pictures to editors, to galleries, and you will be published and exposed.
If you are only a good photographer, but if want to show your work to most people (and it's a good goal), you should make your own website (and it may be free!).
Pickett Wilson
Veteran
The odds that you can get an established publisher to take a risk on you are between zero and not likely. This is simply reality.
jesse1dog
Light Catcher
tom.w.bn has already suggested blurb.com
The download of the program is free, easy and relatively quick.
During an evening you could probably get some sort of feel for putting together a book using their templates. You can play around with text and pictures just to see what happens. You don't have to publish your eforts, just get some experience of what is involved. I think you will then have a bit better grasp of type and page layout and what you might want to talk about to a 'proper' publisher.
jesse
The download of the program is free, easy and relatively quick.
During an evening you could probably get some sort of feel for putting together a book using their templates. You can play around with text and pictures just to see what happens. You don't have to publish your eforts, just get some experience of what is involved. I think you will then have a bit better grasp of type and page layout and what you might want to talk about to a 'proper' publisher.
jesse
nolasafari
Member
My wife just completed and ordered a book on blurb last night. This book is for personal use and to review the quality. She used blurb because of the reviews on this site. I think blurb has some real advantages for small runs of books. We have a group of about 150 who went on a trip to Germany this summer, the trip was a high school Jazz Band exchange program. We will self publish a book for the group with any profits going to support the kids. Not everyone wants to publish to sell in bookstores or in large quantity. Often a book dealing with a niche market will have limited sales but will command a high price due to the rarity of the information conveyed.
Frank Petronio
Well-known
Editing and sequencing the photos is the key to any successful book, whether it is a one-time Blurb job or a huge best seller. Few people will invest the time and energy that you will into editing your own work, but it is perhaps as hard as anything else you will ever do and a lot of photographers are lousy at it, especially on their first effort.
I suspect that given the dark and contrasty way your photos are, you will require a high quality publisher and careful image prep, perhaps a test printing to get it right....
Doing a blog and a Blurb book will help with your editing. The blog will help you identify your best work and build interest amongst potential customers. Going to a real publisher with a Blurb book and some fine prints will make great presentation. And if you get rejected, you still have a nice Blurb book ;-p
I suspect that given the dark and contrasty way your photos are, you will require a high quality publisher and careful image prep, perhaps a test printing to get it right....
Doing a blog and a Blurb book will help with your editing. The blog will help you identify your best work and build interest amongst potential customers. Going to a real publisher with a Blurb book and some fine prints will make great presentation. And if you get rejected, you still have a nice Blurb book ;-p
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semordnilap
Well-known
I agree... I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss self-publication as a first step. Worked for one of Philip K Dick's ex-wives, too: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/23/books/23philip.html?hpw
A blurb or chinese-published book will make a nice thing to show around. And if a publisher wants it, they will make WHATEVER changes they want along the way.
A blurb or chinese-published book will make a nice thing to show around. And if a publisher wants it, they will make WHATEVER changes they want along the way.
Ducky
Well-known
Frank Petronio has it nailed. Editing is the hard part, even if you have a wide range portfolio. Use the Blurb software, it is excellent. Even if you don't publish/print a copy you will have wrestled with positioning and descriptions.
ebino
Well-known
The Americans was a huge success in France which is sort of like the home of photography and by beat generation in US not to mention most of the top photographers including Walker Evans... I don't know of any other photo book which was a critical and commercial failure and then became a classic.
What I meant was that while the success of a photo book is always a question mark, its failure can be demotivating, so one must be really careful when making a book.
What I meant was that while the success of a photo book is always a question mark, its failure can be demotivating, so one must be really careful when making a book.
Avotius
Some guy
I am not too worried about editing the photos and putting together the series. Back in college, editing was something like 2.5 of our 4 years. Lots of work and practice putting together different types of works and methods of doing so.
I think I will give it a go either way. I look look into blurb also as a way of getting started and a feel for what I want later. Maybe I will print out a copy or two for myself too, and also see what it would cost to have such work done here.
I think I will give it a go either way. I look look into blurb also as a way of getting started and a feel for what I want later. Maybe I will print out a copy or two for myself too, and also see what it would cost to have such work done here.
ryan26
Established
Having some experience with this, I would produce a book yourself with which to present to publishers, as opposed to just putting a stack of photographs in front of them.
Please don't dismiss self-publishing. Eugene Richards self-published Dorchester Days by printing it at a jam jar label company. This was the work that made his name (and also got him into Magnum).
Please don't dismiss self-publishing. Eugene Richards self-published Dorchester Days by printing it at a jam jar label company. This was the work that made his name (and also got him into Magnum).
bolohead
Joel Cosseboom
I know a little about this…
I’ve worked in book publishing for the past 10 years, the latter half with the leading scholarly publisher of Asian Studies books in the world.
- Acquiring editors at publishing houses get thousands of manuscript submissions a year. I would suggest that you not contact them until you have at least a publishing proposal with sample chapters. Do your research now on who you would like to have publish the book. Submit the proposal or finished manuscript to your entire list when it is ready.
- Publishing in China is an option. Be sure that you research the publishing company to see that they have distribution outside of China. I know a Chinese publisher who just signed up for North American distribution where their list of over 1000 books was previously not being sold. Don’t limit yourself by choosing a publisher that does not have worldwide distribution.
- Designing and typesetting are typically a function of the publishing company. You would not necessarily have to do any design. The publisher pays for the printing.
- As someone who likes to do everything himself, I would never self-publish a book unless it was something that I planned on giving away to family and friends. I’m sure if I put my mind to it and devoted the time, I could learn InDesign and make a proper book design, pay for the printing, warehouse the print run, market the book, hit the streets and start selling the book to big retailers and distributors, deal with collecting payments from bookstores that typically don’t pay until 120 days after you invoice them, deal with returns (books are returnable and for every 100 books sold about 20 are returned), and I could go on and on. If I think the book has a market, I would rather have someone who knows what they are doing and has these systems already set up take care of it. Trust me, it is a lot of work. I’d rather be out shooting than doing it myself.
I’ve worked in book publishing for the past 10 years, the latter half with the leading scholarly publisher of Asian Studies books in the world.
Dwayneb9584
Well-known
Do you showcase your work in galleries? That might be a better route at first. I suggest making a personal book and having photographs that you would want to feature in a gallery and send it to some locally. I thing galleries want to support artist, it's just our job in letting them know we want there support. I'm working on a few projects at the moment and talking to a few people who know people who run galleries here in NYC. Once I get my work together I plan to talk with them in supporting my work in their galleries or even renting a space to have a small show. I think these things will benefit you in terms of your book being recognized, or you being recognized as as artist in general. But just be humble about it and continue to make work. A lot of things come just by word of mouth and that means by walking into a gallery and telling them who you are and what you want to do.
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35mmdelux
Veni, vidi, vici
In the words of Elliott Erwitt: Keep your day job.
Haigh
Gary Haigh
Gekopaca, I have "done" a couple of photo books and certainly made some mistakes in each of them but then I at least have something to show friends and one case it was instrumental in getting me the most successful exhibition I have had. This of course was unforeseen at the time I had it made. For editing I get my partner to do it as she has a great eye, or I can call on a friend or two who have a design background. Sorry to prattle on about me but it's how i started.
Good luck and enjoy seeing your images in print.
Good luck and enjoy seeing your images in print.
Haigh
Gary Haigh
Apologies:
this should have read Avotius, I have "done" a couple of photo books and certainly made some mistakes in each of them but then I at least have something to show friends and one case it was instrumental in getting me the most successful exhibition I have had. This of course was unforeseen at the time I had it made. For editing I get my partner to do it as she has a great eye, or I can call on a friend or two who have a design background. Sorry to prattle on about me but it's how i started.
Good luck and enjoy seeing your images in print.
this should have read Avotius, I have "done" a couple of photo books and certainly made some mistakes in each of them but then I at least have something to show friends and one case it was instrumental in getting me the most successful exhibition I have had. This of course was unforeseen at the time I had it made. For editing I get my partner to do it as she has a great eye, or I can call on a friend or two who have a design background. Sorry to prattle on about me but it's how i started.
Good luck and enjoy seeing your images in print.
damien.murphy
Damien
Fair play Avotius,
I think Frank is spot on with his sagely words, in that editing is such a crucial stage. Most people will only see a very small fraction of the images you take - the ones you put out there, and it's important to make your selection as strong a choice as possible. Also the flow/ consistency of the book is important too, and often an image that ties strands of your work together, even if not the strongest image itself, is an importantelement too.
Many photographers choose to live with their work over a period of time, that they may fully appraise images for consideration, in addition to inviting the assistance of any trusted, image making/ image taking friends for their perspective too.
I think Frank is spot on with his sagely words, in that editing is such a crucial stage. Most people will only see a very small fraction of the images you take - the ones you put out there, and it's important to make your selection as strong a choice as possible. Also the flow/ consistency of the book is important too, and often an image that ties strands of your work together, even if not the strongest image itself, is an importantelement too.
Many photographers choose to live with their work over a period of time, that they may fully appraise images for consideration, in addition to inviting the assistance of any trusted, image making/ image taking friends for their perspective too.