meandihagee
Well-known
Hello,
My Kodak Carousel is great, but I'm looking for something, well, bigger. Is 645 format doable with a slide projector that also has automatic loop (that goes back to the begging after the slides are done and continues the slideshow)?
Thing is, I cannot drop 2000$ on a Rollei (they have at BH, new) and I'm looking for something with a more forgiving price.
Any general info on MF slide projections is greatly appreciated.
Thank you
My Kodak Carousel is great, but I'm looking for something, well, bigger. Is 645 format doable with a slide projector that also has automatic loop (that goes back to the begging after the slides are done and continues the slideshow)?
Thing is, I cannot drop 2000$ on a Rollei (they have at BH, new) and I'm looking for something with a more forgiving price.
Any general info on MF slide projections is greatly appreciated.
Thank you
Spanik
Well-known
You can find a Rollei P11 for 1/10 of that price. Not the latest and greatest, noisy, huge and heavy and on the dim side. But they do both 120 and 135 slides, there are a few lenses available to cater your projection needs. The lamps are hard to find but you can find guides on the net to replace the lamp with something more contemporary. At the same time upgrade to something more powerfull.
While it has a "remote" there is nothing automatic for it. And those MF slide carriages only take 30 slides.
I do have a P11 and for me it is fine. Never got around to do the lamp upgrade so no comment on how good that actually is. (still got a few spare lamps that came with it)
But there are other second hand MF projectors around. Like Kindermann or Prado or Hasselblad.
While it has a "remote" there is nothing automatic for it. And those MF slide carriages only take 30 slides.
I do have a P11 and for me it is fine. Never got around to do the lamp upgrade so no comment on how good that actually is. (still got a few spare lamps that came with it)
But there are other second hand MF projectors around. Like Kindermann or Prado or Hasselblad.
HHPhoto
Well-known
Hi,
well medium format slide projection with a very good projection lens is the best quality you can achieve in photography: Outstanding brillance, resolution and sharpness.
And what I would describe as "impact".
Recently we had a nice presentation from a prof. photographer in our fotoclub. He did some identical shots with his Rolleiflex on Provia 100F and Velvia 100F and his 60MP digital back. From the digital files 40" prints have been made.
The slides have been projected on a 2m screen with the Rollei 66 dual P projector with the outststanding AV-Apogon 2,8/120 lens.
The medium format slide has won the competition with a very big margin: It has looked so much more impressive and powerful compared the print from the digital back, that even the "digital fundamentalists"
in our club had to admit that the projected slides offer the best image quality.
If the outstanding Rollei 66 dual P projector is new to expensive for you, you have the following possibilities:
1. Look for a used one (maybe international via ebay)
2. Look for a used Hasselblad (automatic, with carousel magazine) or Leitz Prado projector (manual).
3. Look for a used Rolleivision 66. That was the first automatic magazine medium format projector from Rollei after the manual P 11.
4. Look for a new or a used Kindermann Diafocus 66 T or Diafocus 66T highlight:
The "highlight" version has an improved condensor system with 30% more light efficiency.
Recommended is the 2,8/150 MC lens. This is much much better than the cheap 3,0/150 lens.
The Kindermann Diafocus 66T ist still available new at some dealers. It is significantly cheaper than the Rollei.
Firstcall has it:
http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/categories/94/35mm-projectors
And Atelier-Rieter as well:
http://www.atelier-rieter.de/ang1.htm
Cheers, Jan
P.S. The outstanding Rollei 66 dual P is a multi format projector: You can project 24x36mm; 4x4 superslides, 4,5x6 and 6x6 medium format slides with it.
well medium format slide projection with a very good projection lens is the best quality you can achieve in photography: Outstanding brillance, resolution and sharpness.
And what I would describe as "impact".
Recently we had a nice presentation from a prof. photographer in our fotoclub. He did some identical shots with his Rolleiflex on Provia 100F and Velvia 100F and his 60MP digital back. From the digital files 40" prints have been made.
The slides have been projected on a 2m screen with the Rollei 66 dual P projector with the outststanding AV-Apogon 2,8/120 lens.
The medium format slide has won the competition with a very big margin: It has looked so much more impressive and powerful compared the print from the digital back, that even the "digital fundamentalists"
in our club had to admit that the projected slides offer the best image quality.If the outstanding Rollei 66 dual P projector is new to expensive for you, you have the following possibilities:
1. Look for a used one (maybe international via ebay)
2. Look for a used Hasselblad (automatic, with carousel magazine) or Leitz Prado projector (manual).
3. Look for a used Rolleivision 66. That was the first automatic magazine medium format projector from Rollei after the manual P 11.
4. Look for a new or a used Kindermann Diafocus 66 T or Diafocus 66T highlight:
The "highlight" version has an improved condensor system with 30% more light efficiency.
Recommended is the 2,8/150 MC lens. This is much much better than the cheap 3,0/150 lens.
The Kindermann Diafocus 66T ist still available new at some dealers. It is significantly cheaper than the Rollei.
Firstcall has it:
http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/categories/94/35mm-projectors
And Atelier-Rieter as well:
http://www.atelier-rieter.de/ang1.htm
Cheers, Jan
P.S. The outstanding Rollei 66 dual P is a multi format projector: You can project 24x36mm; 4x4 superslides, 4,5x6 and 6x6 medium format slides with it.
meandihagee
Well-known
Hi,
well medium format slide projection with a very good projection lens is the best quality you can achieve in photography: Outstanding brillance, resolution and sharpness.
And what I would describe as "impact".
Recently we had a nice presentation from a prof. photographer in our fotoclub. He did some identical shots with his Rolleiflex on Provia 100F and Velvia 100F and his 60MP digital back. From the digital files 40" prints have been made.
The slides have been projected on a 2m screen with the Rollei 66 dual P projector with the outststanding AV-Apogon 2,8/120 lens.
The medium format slide has won the competition with a very big margin: It has looked so much more impressive and powerful compared the print from the digital back, that even the "digital fundamentalists"
If the outstanding Rollei 66 dual P projector is new to expensive for you, you have the following possibilities:
1. Look for a used one (maybe international via ebay)
2. Look for a used Hasselblad (automatic, with carousel magazine) or Leitz Prado projector (manual).
3. Look for a used Rolleivision 66. That was the first automatic magazine medium format projector from Rollei after the manual P 11.
4. Look for a new or a used Kindermann Diafocus 66 T or Diafocus 66T highlight:
The "highlight" version has an improved condensor system with 30% more light efficiency.
Recommended is the 2,8/150 MC lens. This is much much better than the cheap 3,0/150 lens.
The Kindermann Diafocus 66T ist still available new at some dealers. It is significantly cheaper than the Rollei.
Firstcall has it:
http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/categories/94/35mm-projectors
And Atelier-Rieter as well:
http://www.atelier-rieter.de/ang1.htm
Cheers, Jan
P.S. The outstanding Rollei 66 dual P is a multi format projector: You can project 24x36mm; 4x4 superslides, 4,5x6 and 6x6 medium format slides with it.
Is the Kindermann Diafocus 66T compatible with 645 format? I cannot find any manual on the internet.
Thanks a lot for the info, Spanik as well.
HHPhoto
Well-known
Yes, of course. If a slide projector is designed for 6x6 as the maximum format, projecting 4,5x6 as well is no problem at all.
And for example the Gepe 4,5x6 mounts are almost identical to the 6x6 mounts: Exactly the same outer dimensions, there is only a slightly different inner metal mask with 4,5cm height instead of 6cm height.
Cheers, Jan
Geordiepete
Member
I have an old Mamiya Cabin 667. It projects 35mm, 6x4.5, 6x6, and 6x7. 645s and 6x7s are a treat with it.
meandihagee
Well-known
One more thing, will the focal length of the lenses keep their properties even on medium format? Or is it like the MF film lenses that have different values (50mm on 135 becomes 80mm on 120)?
I am trying to understand what the picture size will be with a 150 lens.
I changed a few emails with a Kindermann dealer and looks like the best way to go. However, can you please make a comment on the quality of their lenses, because compared with glass makers like Rollei or Mamiya they look more like an office solutions supplier and if I make this step I want to invest in something that is above average.
Thanks
I am trying to understand what the picture size will be with a 150 lens.
I changed a few emails with a Kindermann dealer and looks like the best way to go. However, can you please make a comment on the quality of their lenses, because compared with glass makers like Rollei or Mamiya they look more like an office solutions supplier and if I make this step I want to invest in something that is above average.
Thanks
HHPhoto
Well-known
Yes, there are different values:
The "normal" focal length for 35mm slide projection is 90mm.
And the "normal" focal length for 4,5x6 and 6x6 is 150mm.
Kindermann has been one of the biggest slide projector producers. Their projectors has been optimised for a very good price - performance ratio.
The quality is very good, but not quite on the same level as the top models from Leica, Rollei or Götschmann.
But Kindermann is cheaper.
A friend of mine has the Diafocus 66 T highlight and he is very satiesfied.
Lenses: Kindermann offered two lenses for this projector:
A cheap one: 3,0/150mm. Avoid that!
A very good one: 2,8/150. Go for that (that is the one my friend is using).
Cheers, Jan
meandihagee
Well-known
Got it. Much appreciated. I learned a lot of stuff here and I will probably go for the lens you recommended.
Skiff
Well-known
For 4x4 Superslides, 4,5x6 and 6x6 I can recommend from my own experience:
1. Best choice:
Rollei dual 66P with AV-Apogon 2,8/120 lens (or the 2,8/150; but the 2,8/120 is even still a little bit better, and allows shorter projection distances).
By the way also the most versatile projector, because 35mm transparencies can be projected, too.
This projector is also still produced new by DHW-Fototechnik (former Franke&Heidecke/Rollei) in Brunswick/Germany.
Outstanding quality.
2. Second best choice:
Kindermann 66 Diafocus highlight with the 2,8/150 lens.
If you are on a budget and don't have enough money for the Rollei, the Kindermann is a good choice.
For bigger enlargements slide projection delivers by far the best image quality:
- you have the highest contrast range: with prints the physical limit is a Dmax of 2,3 logD; with color reversal film you get up to 4 logD, and with some BW reversal films you even reach a Dmax of up to 5 logD. Therefore you have the best brillance in projection, always superior to prints.
- you get the best sharpness, highest resolution and finest grain with projected transparencies: Because
a) slide film has finer grain and higher resolution than print film of the same speed
b) with very good projection lenses the quality loss by projection is minimal, so minimal that it is practically irrelevant; the quality loss in the printing imaging chain is a bit bigger.
The imaging chain in projection is a bit stronger.
- slide film projection is much superior to digital beamers, because beamers suffer from their extremely low and insufficient resolution and their bad color reproduction. Digital projection can't compete at all to slide projection.
A Nikon D800E is completely worthless in projection because it's resolution cannot be used at all by the beamers.
A D800E picture with the latest 12,000 $ beamers looks like crap compared to a 35mm transparency projected with a Leica Pradovit PC/IR with a Super-Colorplan P2 or a Zeiss P Sonnar.
I've made the direct comparison recently.
The results are absolutely clear.
Therefore I will stay with transparency projection for best quality.
1. Best choice:
Rollei dual 66P with AV-Apogon 2,8/120 lens (or the 2,8/150; but the 2,8/120 is even still a little bit better, and allows shorter projection distances).
By the way also the most versatile projector, because 35mm transparencies can be projected, too.
This projector is also still produced new by DHW-Fototechnik (former Franke&Heidecke/Rollei) in Brunswick/Germany.
Outstanding quality.
2. Second best choice:
Kindermann 66 Diafocus highlight with the 2,8/150 lens.
If you are on a budget and don't have enough money for the Rollei, the Kindermann is a good choice.
For bigger enlargements slide projection delivers by far the best image quality:
- you have the highest contrast range: with prints the physical limit is a Dmax of 2,3 logD; with color reversal film you get up to 4 logD, and with some BW reversal films you even reach a Dmax of up to 5 logD. Therefore you have the best brillance in projection, always superior to prints.
- you get the best sharpness, highest resolution and finest grain with projected transparencies: Because
a) slide film has finer grain and higher resolution than print film of the same speed
b) with very good projection lenses the quality loss by projection is minimal, so minimal that it is practically irrelevant; the quality loss in the printing imaging chain is a bit bigger.
The imaging chain in projection is a bit stronger.
- slide film projection is much superior to digital beamers, because beamers suffer from their extremely low and insufficient resolution and their bad color reproduction. Digital projection can't compete at all to slide projection.
A Nikon D800E is completely worthless in projection because it's resolution cannot be used at all by the beamers.
A D800E picture with the latest 12,000 $ beamers looks like crap compared to a 35mm transparency projected with a Leica Pradovit PC/IR with a Super-Colorplan P2 or a Zeiss P Sonnar.
I've made the direct comparison recently.
The results are absolutely clear.
Therefore I will stay with transparency projection for best quality.
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