bmattock
Veteran
Yes and no. What died was AgfaPhoto, which was a division within Agfa Gevaert, as I understand it. Agfa Gevaert spun AgfaPhoto off, a move which made Germany very angry, because it was understood that AgfaPhoto could not stand on its own, and it didn't. Within a year, it filed for bankruptcy and began seeking buyers. Buyers were not forthcoming, and it ceased operations.
This was and is Agfa Gevaert, rather than AgfaPhoto. I agree.
Correct. Quite simply, the factory is gone, torn down, and the equipment is sold off. Any new 'Vista' or other color film would have to be either:
1) Original film from cold storage
2) New film made by an existing manufacturer and relabeled.
Possibilities for relabeled film would be Kodak, Fujifilm, Ferrania Italy (not US), and Lucky Film if they still manufacture film (I don't think they do, but others disagree).
Kodak and Fuji are the last remaining suppliers of color transparency film, period. If the slide film being 'produced' is not old Agfa, it is Kodak or Fuji film - period.
The photographic industry is acutely aware of what manufacturing capability remains in the world and where it is located. A new film manufacturing facility would create a great deal of interest, and it would be in the trade news instantly. It isn't, because there isn't a new film manufacturing facility.
bmattock
Veteran
batterytypehah!
Lord of the Dings
I was just in Germany and Vista 200 was 75 euro cents for a 2 x 24 pack in drugstores. Expiration date 09-2010. I don't think anybody is making money at that price level. IMO they're trying to get it into another market that can support higher prices before it all expires on them.
As for the B&W, I do expect new stock will arrive once the old Leverkusen APX is all sold off. A niche, for sure, but a modestly profitable one, for whatever entity that holds the rights now.
As for the B&W, I do expect new stock will arrive once the old Leverkusen APX is all sold off. A niche, for sure, but a modestly profitable one, for whatever entity that holds the rights now.
bmattock
Veteran
And what factory will make this APX film, pray tell?
batterytypehah!
Lord of the Dings
^ Adox/Efke or Gevaert, I suppose, as has been stated above. Fotoimpex is on the record saying that they'll distribute it.
If and when all that will come to pass, I don't know. I really don't care all that much, Bill, and I wonder why you keep being so aggressive about this.
If and when all that will come to pass, I don't know. I really don't care all that much, Bill, and I wonder why you keep being so aggressive about this.
bmattock
Veteran
Pie in the sky.
I am an anti-idiotarian. It's like a religion or something for me.
batterytypehah!
Lord of the Dings
Possibly, and I acknowledged that much. I, however, tend to think that there's a modest profit to be made. Some capacity at whichever film factory, the rights to a brand name and technology, existing distribution channels and a small but devoted customer base -- someone will bring it together. Heck, it might even make business sense for Ilford to produce the stuff. (Disclaimer: This last bit is 100% pure speculation.)
JohnTF
Veteran
Foma has a site, I am not at home for the present, link may be on my normal computer, but I also recall seeing a pretty good line of their items from several sources.
I have a good stock in the freezer, which I also did not bring with me, ;-), I did post a couple of shots, I had them scanned and some printed while I was in Prague. Foma processing took a week. I shot only 35mm. I was impressed with the tonal range.
Shadow detail was better in the print and original.
I think the film is Fomadon R, but, regardless it is the only reversal film they make.
Regards, John
Pickett Wilson
Veteran
I don't think we really need relabeled Ilford. And Ilford isn't likely to produce a new emulsion (or reproduce an existing one) to sale under someone else's name. The entire thing sounds far-fetched.
Mcary
Well-known
The problem with this is Harman Technologies, already produces three different lines of B&W film
Line 1 PanF, FP4, HP5
Line 2 Delta 100, 400, 3200
Line 2 1/2 XP2
Line 3 Kentmere 100 and 400
So unless the Agfa film opened up new market share rather then just shifting market share from one of Harman current lines it doesn't make much sense for them to produce a forth line of B&W film.
Fujitsu
Well-known
I can speak only for the Agfa Vista, which is available in Germany for a few years already. Its a consumer type, cheap negative film with quite strong noise ("grain"). I wouldnt recommend it.
antiquark
Derek Ross
But aren't there more important idiotarians to bash? Like the climate change deniers, for instance?
It seems to be a pointless exercise to expend such effort on the film fanatics.
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
Yes, you are.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I never claimed that "Agfa [AgfaPhoto the company] is coming back".
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Haigh
Gary Haigh
Yeh! Bring back Agfa papers as well.
Happy Christmas to all on RFF.
Happy Christmas to all on RFF.
batterytypehah!
Lord of the Dings
I'll repeat that I'm merely speculating. Or call it wishful thinking, perhaps. My understanding is, if and when new APX will be produced, it'll be by Efke under the Adox brand. Here's my translation of the Fotoimpex catalog blurb:
Caveat: They've been recycling this text in every new catalog for a while now, so who knows.
I've tried a couple of Efke films (KB400 and R100-127) and am unimpressed. That's why I'm hoping that maybe some other factory would be interested. Consider this: If we assume that APX is indeed brought back, then Ilford might have an interest in making it. Better to run it themselves and make a few bucks than leaving that market share to Efke. This would be similar to Kodak selling part of their line-up at a discount through Freestyle. Not likely, I agree, but conceivable.
Sanders McNew
Rolleiflex User
Bill, your scepticism is misplaced this time. Adox bought
the IP and hired the engineers and delivered, along with
Inoviscoat, on its plan to return Agfa papers to the market.
Now, we have MCP and MCC back thanks to Adox. What
makes you so sure they will not do the same with APX
films? You talked in an earlier post about burdens of
proof (an awfully legal term) -- hasn't Adox's performance
in returning MCP and MCC to market earned them the
benefit of the doubt on their business plan to manufacture
APX films once the supply chain is in a position to absorb
it? Compared with paper coating, film coating is easy
and inexpensive.
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Sanders McNew
Rolleiflex User
But why? Adox is a committed manufacturer of
B+W films and papers. I've used their new MCC
papers and it is all but indistinguishable from
Agfa's version. The last thing I want to see is
further consolidation in the film and paper
business. I like Ilford well enough, but I prefer
to see a strong independent Adox make and
sell these products.
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bmattock
Veteran
Let's check back on this thread in a year and see how it all worked out, eh? I'll happily eat crow if it turns out to be necessary.
bmattock
Veteran
I love that term. As if doubting that climate change is caused entirely by man is in the same league as denying the reality of the Jewish Holocaust. I would love to see a Jewish person just haul off and clock some idiot meadow-muffin who makes such comparisons.
It really isn't any effort for me. I'm that good.
Paul T.
Veteran
AH, so you acknowledge the possibility you could be wrong and your nastiness is totally unjustified? That's a start, I guess.