Agfa Karat IV

[kvanderlaag]

I recently ordered a Zorki 6 on eBay, thinking it would be my first rangefinder. It's still not here, but interesting things have happened since!

My mother passed away a month ago, but no, I'm not looking for sympathy. Simply, we had to go through all of her things, and among those things was an Agfa Karat IV she acquired while her family lived in Germany while she was a little girl.

The first thing I noticed about it is that it is, indeed, a very beautiful camera, but there's some things wrong with it, definitely, as it's years and years old. Namely, the usual problems -- the shutter timer seems to be off, especially at longer times (1s in particular), the film winder was a little bit odd (it seemed to fire the shutter periodically -- I think the shutter itself might have been sticking, but it loosened itself up after a bit of use.)

My primary concern, though, is that the rangefinder coupling seems to be very much out of alignment. Focusing changes the rangefinder patch, definitely, but the focusing distance compared to the sharpness of the patch seems to be very hit and miss. I was wondering in particular if anyone knew how to adjust the rangefinder on the Karat IV?

Unfortunately, I'm not very mechanically savvy. If it were a digital camera in disrepair, or a computer, or anything, I'm sure I could do it just fine. However, anything involving levers and cogs and screws and things is just asking for me to break it, trying to fix it. If the process isn't particularly easy, does anyone know someone (in Canada, preferrably) who might be able to do it?

Essentially, I guess I'm looking for any help you dashing, brilliant photographers can offer me!

Thanks a lot!
-Keegan

 

[bmattock]

Keegan,

Exellent camera. Which lens does it have? Here are a couple of resources.

http://www.cameraquest.com/agfakar4.htm

http://www.growlery.com/agfa_karat_iv/

The rangefinder on the Karat IV is actually one of the easiest to work on that there is. It is a complete unit, hidden under the hood of the top of the camera.

To get the top off, one must remove the screws on the end plates - they are very tiny and require tiny jeweler's screwdrivers. One is hidden behind the winder (remember, the winder gets pulled toward you to wind, backwards from most cameras).

The knob rewind can be removed by this method - open the back of the camera. Stick something in the tines of the rewind thing that hangs down to stop it turning freely. Then turn the rewind knob while refusing to let the tines below turn. The top comes off. Beware, it comes into three pieces.

Then you can lift the top off.

The rangefinder itself is held on with three screws - you'll see 'em. Very long, but not all the same, don't mix 'em up. Then you can clean the rangefinder unit (from the outside of it - I've never opened up the inside of the inner unit) and adjust the RF for infinity focus. You should see the set screws for that - it has been awhile and I don't recall exactly where they are.

Frankly, though, I suspect your Karat IV needs a good CLA. You might want to send it off and have it worked over. It is a nice camera, one of my favorites.

And my condolences on your loss.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[kvanderlaag]

It's got the Solinar f/2.8 on it -- my mother's family wasn't exactly rich, with five children and a father who worked as an Air Force photographer.

The workings of the Karat IV don't sound too particularly intricate, from what you're saying, but I'm pretty sure you're right, a CLA is definitely in order. The grease on half of the levers on the camera has done that thing where it just sort of goops, I'm sure, judging by how long it took me to loosen up the focus lever.

Any reccomendations for CLAing an Agfa?

 

[bmattock]

It's got the Solinar f/2.8 on it -- my mother's family wasn't exactly rich, with five children and a father who worked as an Air Force photographer.

The workings of the Karat IV don't sound too particularly intricate, from what you're saying, but I'm pretty sure you're right, a CLA is definitely in order. The grease on half of the levers on the camera has done that thing where it just sort of goops, I'm sure, judging by how long it took me to loosen up the focus lever.

Any reccomendations for CLAing an Agfa?

I'm afraid I have no direct experience with anyone - I've been too broke or too cheap (take yer pick) to send any of my cameras off in years. I keep meaning to send my Fuji G690 off so I can put it back in rotation again. I hesitate to recommend anyone myself, but I'm sure others here will step forward with some good info!

Oh, and the 2.8 lens is quite sharp, it's worth keeping!

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[kvanderlaag]

Perfect!

If no one has any reccomendations, and I can't find anyone around here who knows, I suppose I could try to do the RF calibration myself, and live with the mechanics in their current state.

Thanks,
-Keegan

 

[wlewisiii]

I don't know anyone doing CLA's on Karats, alas. My Karat 36 is a delight and if I were forced to only own one camera either it or my Speed Graphic would win that competition...

There is an excellent website in German at http://www.karat-kameras.de/frameset.htm Presuming you don't read German, it babelfishes decently or you might try emailing him for suggestions on places to send a Karat for a CLA. I did my 36 myself as well - they are, quite possibly, the easiest classic camera to work on. Certainly far freaking easier than any of the Retina's I've delt with (!)... 🙂 But definately read his pages. If you do decide to do the work yourself, it will be _much_ easier if you do.

The Solinar 50/2.8 is one of the finest Tessar clones ever ground. It's well worth the effort to get it into your pocket as your "carry at all times" camera. That lens and a roll of Plus-X is as near heaven as a mortal will get on this side ... 😀

William

 

[bmattock]

The Solinar 50/2.8 is one of the finest Tessar clones ever ground. It's well worth the effort to get it into your pocket as your "carry at all times" camera. That lens and a roll of Plus-X is as near heaven as a mortal will get on this side ... 😀
William

William, I agree with a single exception, and it may only be me. I seem to prefer the look of the Xenar 50mm f2 on the Karat IV, and I think I've identified why. The tessar clone is 'too sharp'. Do you know what I mean? I used to pursue tessar-formula lenses, and then I began to realize that they rub me the wrong way. They have a 'sharpness' look to them. The Xenar seems, I dunno, softer. I never thought I'd prefer another lens formula because it was LESS sharp! And maybe sharpness is not the word. Tessars have a certain...something. And most people like it a lot, I know.

Am I making any sense here?

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[wlewisiii]

I can understand. I am, however, one of those who prefers the Tessar/Sonnar way of looking at the world. There is an exquisite sharpness at the center of a Tessar shot (with it bleeding slowly, softly, away as you get out to the edges) that really is something you either love or not.

So no fight from me, but I'll still pimp the Solinar over the Xenar... 😀 But let me guess that you really like Nikon lenses?

<lol>

William

 

[kvanderlaag]

Interestingly, I couldn't even discern enough from the Babelfished pages of that German site to figure out much about the Karat IV -- I'm almost a little scared to fire off an e-mail to him, but I'll definitely keep that in mind. Of course, I'm sure shipping to any of the (undoubtedly European) places he might know would be long and expensive, on top of what I'd imagine to be a fairly expensive service.

I'll definitely have to see what I can find!

 

[wlewisiii]

Good luck with whatever you do decide to do. I may have had an advantage in that I did study German in High School and then spent time in country courtesy of Uncle Sam... 🙂 so his pages may have made more sense as a result!

William

 

[pshinkaw]

I prefer the Solinar 2.8 over the Schneider Xenon 2.0. I only have the older Karat 36 models, but I believe the lenses are the same.

Essex in Carlstadt New Jersey will work on the Agfa's. They have a website and will give you an estimate by e-mail

-Paul

 

[sbug]

Keegan,
I have a similar camera that I have done some CL but no A on and it was time well spent. I got some guidance from William and you can see his post regarding it here: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9758&highlight=Agfa/Ansco
My version is probably slightly different than yours. You can see pictures of the pre-CL camera in my gallery. I just put my first roll through it and I put up three pictures in my gallery this weekend as well. Nothing great since I was shooting pretty much anything just to burn through the roll. I have the 50 2.0 Xenon. I only have this one roll to make an opinion from but so far, so good. I did notice that in many of the pitctures, the lens does seem to lose a bit of contrast in the center of the image. Not so bad in the one below though.
Scott

 

[bmattock]

Keegan,
I have a similar camera that I have done some CL but no A on and it was time well spent. I got some guidance from William and you can see his post regarding it here: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9758&highlight=Agfa/Ansco
My version is probably slightly different than yours. You can see pictures of the pre-CL camera in my gallery. I just put my first roll through it and I put up three pictures in my gallery this weekend as well. Nothing great since I was shooting pretty much anything just to burn through the roll. I have the 50 2.0 Xenon. I only have this one roll to make an opinion from but so far, so good. I did notice that in many of the pitctures, the lens does seem to lose a bit of contrast in the center of the image. Not so bad in the one below though.
Scott

Scott,

The Xenar flares quite badly - so does the Solagon 2.0. Worth investing in a tiny lens shade on this model - that could very well be what you're seeing as loss of contrast in the middle.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[sbug]

Bill,
Yes, it could be flare. I had not thought of that. I intentionally shot the first roll with nothing on to see how the vignetting was when shooting wide open. Initial impression... not so hot but not a deal breaker either. Stopped down even just a bit offers a nice improvement of course. I do have an old press-fit Kodak Series V adapter that I will keep on for the next roll. I have found that Series V filters are pretty inexpensive on ebay too so I'll grab a set and keep b&w in this camera.
Scott

 

[kvanderlaag]

All right! Some degree of success! I pulled the top off of the camera and did a bit of an adjustment on the rangefinder -- it seems to focus fairly well! It's accurate at 3.5 feet, 5 feet, ten feet, and distances past that. The patch seems to be very poorly defined, though. Is this common of the Karat? It's not unuseable by any means, but in comparison to, say, a Canonet 28 I was using the other way, it seems very undefined.

I'd be very interested to learn more about how the rangefinder couples to the lens, and what's supposed to move or change when the focus is adjusted -- as well as where, exactly, the set screws are! If anyone knows, it'd be greatly appreciated.

I'm a little scared to take off the lens elements to lubricate the focus lever, though -- any words of advice on that?

Thanks!

 

[sbug]

The lens should come off easily, unscrew counter-clockwise. You shouldn't need to do that to work on the focus lever though. What you probably have is gunk (just like I did) on the focus helical. Read the instructions William gave me again and you will have a smooth focus lever in no time. All the work can be done from the back of the camera. Here is the link to his post again:http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9758&highlight=Agfa/Ansco
Scott

 

[kvanderlaag]

Whoops! I definitely didn't read that properly, I suppose! Funny, the things the brain misses when you read over things! I'll have to scrounge up a bowl of lighter fluid and some grease. William used automotive grease -- is there really any kind of grease that works better than any other, or is it pretty open to interpretation?

I hate to be such a huge pain! I'd just hate to destroy something that everyone seems to reccomend so highly just because I don't know how to service it properly!

Thanks for all of your help, I really appreciate it!

-Keegan

 

[wlewisiii]

The main thing is to use just enough so that it moves smoothly, but doesn't "shed" any off onto the film. It's really a pretty easy process; in a real way the Karat was my first patient that "survived" so it couldn't have been too difficult! 😀

William

 

[kvanderlaag]

You know, having actually done it, opened it up, checked everything out, aligned the RF, and lubed it, I'm somewhat underwhelmed. It's nice and smooth, pretty accurate, and in all honesty, my concerns about the definition of the RF were unfounded -- having let it loosen up and settle for a bit, it's working just fine.

The only thing I find a little odd is that when I slide the focus lever all the way down to 3.5 feet, it settles just fine, but it seems to take a while to catch up as you push it back towards infinity. It's not that slow, though, so I'm not overly concerned. I suppose I'll just have to make sure I don't bring the focus in too close, too quickly!

Again, thanks for all your help. I probably would have botched something without someone telling me what to do. I feel like an idiot, but you guys have been absolutely fabulous, and I've learned a lot! I'm really looking forward to shooting with this camera!

-Keegan

 

[sbug]

You know, having actually done it, opened it up, checked everything out, aligned the RF, and lubed it, I'm somewhat underwhelmed. It's nice and smooth, pretty accurate, and in all honesty, my concerns about the definition of the RF were unfounded -- having let it loosen up and settle for a bit, it's working just fine.

The only thing I find a little odd is that when I slide the focus lever all the way down to 3.5 feet, it settles just fine, but it seems to take a while to catch up as you push it back towards infinity. It's not that slow, though, so I'm not overly concerned. I suppose I'll just have to make sure I don't bring the focus in too close, too quickly!

Again, thanks for all your help. I probably would have botched something without someone telling me what to do. I feel like an idiot, but you guys have been absolutely fabulous, and I've learned a lot! I'm really looking forward to shooting with this camera!

-Keegan

Well, I did stray a bit from Williams recommendations but mine came out fine too. I used a citrus degreraser from my days as a bike shop rat and used some fancy white teflon grease once things were cleaned up. Oh, and a gross of q-tips too! Glad you were successful. Post some pictures when you have a chance.
Scott