Agfa Record II with Apotar

[Thomas78]

Hello,


I want to show some pictures of and with my Agfa Record II.


I got this camera from my uncle in the early 1990s.
The camera was in a very good condition except for the shutter button, which my uncle had lost and then replaced with a small plastic rod. A interesting fact ist that the bellows are in a nearly new shape, perhaps they already were replaced in the past.

I didn`t use the camera, because I only shoot some 35 mm film at that time.

In 2008 I wanted to play a little bit with it, but the grease in the focusing helicoil turned into glue. I fixed this myself but later send the camera to a professional CLA.

Shortly after the CLA the improvised shutter button broke of. Last weekend I convinced my father to help me making a new, nice shutter button (out of stainless steel).

Here are some pictures of it:


IMG_4230 von thomas.78 auf Flickr


IMG_4235 von thomas.78 auf Flickr


IMG_4238 von thomas.78 auf Flickr


Some technical data:

It is light: 679 g (without film)
It is compact: 165 x 98 x 45 mm
It gives big negatives: 56 x 86 mm

 

[Thomas78]

And here some pictures of the first film:

Fomapan 400 in Rodinal 1:50, 11 min. (Perpaps I should look for an other developer to give a little less grain.)
At all pictures the distance was measured wit a old Voigtländer Rangefinder in the accessory shoe.

1/100 s, f/16, 1.3 m


Agfa Record II_Fomapan 400_F0_001 von thomas.78 auf Flickr

1/50 f/4.5, 1.4 m


Agfa Record II_Fomapan 400_F0_002 von thomas.78 auf Flickr

1/100s, f/16, inf.


Agfa Record II_Fomapan 400_F0_003 von thomas.78 auf Flickr

1/50s, f/5.6, 7 m


Agfa Record II_Fomapan 400_F0_004 von thomas.78 auf Flickr


I think they are not that bad for a simple triplet lens.

 

[mgchan]

That's a great looking folder and provenance. Your photos are wonderful!

 

[farlymac]

Oh, to find an Agfa with a good bellows...

That's a wonderful story to go with the camera, Thomas. And yes, triplet lenses are very underrated. I need to do some work on my Viking 4.5 and start shooting it again.

PF

 

[graywolf]

I think the original shutter button on those may have been red plastic. I have an Ansco which is actually a Agfa that has a red plastic shutter button. Of course, stainless steel is way nicer.

 

[Thomas78]

That's a great looking folder and provenance. Your photos are wonderful!

Oh, to find an Agfa with a good bellows...

That's a wonderful story to go with the camera, Thomas. And yes, triplet lenses are very underrated. I need to do some work on my Viking 4.5 and start shooting again.

PF

Thank you, mgchan and PF !

I think the original shutter button on those may have been red plastic. I have an Ansco which is actually a Agfa that has a red plastic shutter button. Of course, stainless steel is way nicer.

Some images at the net show that it had a metal shutter button with a thread for the cable release:

The red shutter buttons were released later in the 1960s, I think.


And you are right, stainless steel is nicer than red plastic.

 

[joeswe]

Nice pictures, Thomas. The bellows look much like the original Agfa ones. Sometimes it takes a couple of rolls for the edges to become brittle. 🙂 Anyhow, it's not a biggie, you can repair them easily with black silicone sealer.
I happen to have the same Record II with Apotar/Pronto that you own. The Apotar is a nice lens, but I am not a big fan of the Pronto shutter after the one in my Agfa let me down and bit the dust after only three or four rolls. The rage of shutter speeds is also too limited for my taste. Bottom line is, I replaced the lens/shutter unit with a pre-war Kodak (Carl Zeiss) Novar-Anastigmat lens in Compur shutter. Soon after that the bellows started to develop holes and I have yet to repair it.

That one was still taken with the Apotar lens:


image_04 von eames68 auf Flickr

 

[Thomas78]

Nice pictures, Thomas. The bellows look much like the original Agfa ones. Sometimes it takes a couple of rolls for the edges to become brittle. 🙂 Anyhow, it's not a biggie, you can repair them easily with black silicone sealer.
I happen to have the same Record II with Apotar/Pronto that you own. The Apotar is a nice lens, but I am not a big fan of the Pronto shutter after the one in my Agfa let me down and bit the dust after only three or four rolls. The rage of shutter speeds is also too limited for my taste. Bottom line is, I replaced the lens/shutter unit with a pre-war Kodak (Carl Zeiss) Novar-Anastigmat lens in Compur shutter. Soon after that the bellows started to develop holes and I have yet to repair it.

That one was still taken with the Apotar lens:
...

Thank you joeswe!

Up to now I didn't have any problems with the prontor shutter.
The shutters speeds are limited (1/200 - 1/25), that is true, but in real life it doesn't restrict me at all when I am shooting hand-hold.

Shooting hand hold I try to use at least 1/50 s whenever possible, so 1/25 s is just my last ressort in low light situations.
Even longer speeds whould demand a tripod IMHO.
A 1/500 s whould be nice in some cases, but as I can stop down the lens to f/32 there is no real need for it if you can live without shooting at open apertures in bright light.

But this is just my personal opinion.



How does the (uncoated?) Novar-Anastigmat compare with the Apotar?



Which cathedral does your picture show?

 

[joeswe]

Thomas,

I always try to keep the shutter speeds up when using these old folders. The light weight is nice for carrying but not very good for stabilizing the camera when shooting. And even with the mighty Synchro-Compur, 1/100 is more like a 1/60 in reality. With my Record III (Solinar lens), I try to use the 1/250 and the 1/500 whenever possible. Of course the big negative helps, as you don't enlarge so much which will make up for some of the blur that can be caused by motion with slower shutter speeds.
The uncoated Novar-Anastigmat (taken from a defunct Kodak Vollenda 620 folder) appears to be quite a decent lens. The original plan was to revive the Apotar by using it with the Compur shutter of the Novar but somehow the threads for screwing in the front element didn't match, so I ended up "transplanting" the whole lens/shutter combo. But I only finished one roll with the Novar before the light leaks appeared and the camera is yet to be repaired, so the final verdict is still out - too much other folders and other cameras lying around here 🙂
Concerning the Apotar, today I did a 30x40 cm enlargement of the negative posted above (which shows the twin towers of the Ringkirche in Wiesbaden, btw) and the sharpness is quite good, with some softness towards the corners noticeable.
Do you have a lens shade for the Apotar? A a habit, I always use shades with these old folders. The lenses do not flare easily but I think the hoods help to keep contrast up. There were black 37mm push-on plastic shades sold by Agfa, they can be found on Ebay or local camera fairs. B+W (the filter manufacturer, not yet part of Schneider and still located in Wiesbaden at that time) produced a nice metal push-on hood of that size, which is also relatively common. The most stylish one however is definitely the 310/37 by Voigtländer, but it is a rare collecotr's item and expensive (usually north of 50 Euros). So I would say for practical purposes, the Agfa is the best.

John

 

[jnoir]

Could it be that the red button you guys are referring to is the one from the Ansco B2? Similar to those early Isolettes.

Is the US version of the Agfa Isolette, 6x6. I have not seen one like this for 6x9. The old models had this bakelite cover. And some of them were even dual format (a feature later lost when the family evolved)

The Record models start with the Billy Record (albada finder, or even no top cover at all), when they became the Agfa Record "per se" (with model II) it was more or less a bigger version of the Isolette II, like Record III is like a bigger Isolette III.

 

[graywolf]

Yes, I have a Ansco B2 Speedex which does have the red plastic shutter button and the bakelite top plate. It is however a made in the USA camera. A relic from WII when they were trying to save metal for the war effort. Although they were made after the war as well.

However, I have seen Agfas with red buttons, although they may not have been original. Perhaps tranplanted from the WII vintage Anscos? The cameras, B2 and Isolette, do seem to be pretty much the same except for the plastic top plate and the B2 lens being called an Anasigmat, and the B2 bellows standing up to time a lot better.

 

[joeswe]

This is the dual format model of the beautiful pre-war Isolette (or Jsolette) with the bakelite cover mentioned by Jnoir. My copy has a metal shutter release button. The mask that can be seen on the second pic just "flips over" (it pivots on the rollers next to the film gate), which is a good thing as you cannot loose the mask that way. Next to the finder eyepiece is a lever that allows you to set the appropriate mask within the finder. The cover has a bit of a plasticky look to it, but I like this design much better than that of the later Isolette models. Unfortunately it comes at a prize, as you don't have an accessory shoe.


DSC01978 von eames68 auf Flickr


DSC01981 von eames68 auf Flickr

 

[jnoir]

Yup, exactly so. A nice example, joeswe.

Anthony & Scottville was Agfa's official reseller in the US since short before WWII. I think these B2 / Jsolette were the first Ansco-rebadged Agfa cameras. As is well known, the agreement continued after the war.

 

[graywolf]

Wal, my Ansco B2 Speedex does not have the dual format feature. It doses say Ansco Binghamtom NY Made in USA on it (However, stuff that had a certain amount of US stuff in it was considered Made in USA for tax purposes). The shutter looks pretty much the same, but does not have the 1 second setting and the top speed is 1/250. It does have that red plastic shutter buttton.

The lens bezel is entirely different but and says ANASTIGMAT Ansco 85mm f/4.5 with the distance scale at 45 degrees so it is visible from the top and the front.

However it is obviously the same basic camera.

Ansco was owned by Agfa prior to WWII, when it had the choice of splitting off or being confiscated by the US government. Agfa badged cameras may have been imported by a separate (Or an ANSCO owned?) importer. The Agfa/ANSCO/GAF story may be the most complicated of any US company, it sure is confusing to me. It makes Kodak seem simple with their buying up and splitting off companies. After about 1950 the US government gave Japan and Germany, and countries who owed lend/lease payments import duty free status, beginning the export of jobs to off shore companies and the screwing of American factory workers (but that is another story & I have never been a factory worker).

So, Made in USA, or not, my camera certainly seems to have been German engineered.

ADDED: According to the WIKI article, ANSCO was actually confiscated by the US government in 1942 and sold by them in 1960. How strange.

 

[Thomas78]

...

Do you have a lens shade for the Apotar? A a habit, I always use shades with these old folders. The lenses do not flare easily but I think the hoods help to keep contrast up. There were black 37mm push-on plastic shades sold by Agfa, they can be found on Ebay or local camera fairs. B+W (the filter manufacturer, not yet part of Schneider and still located in Wiesbaden at that time) produced a nice metal push-on hood of that size, which is also relatively common. The most stylish one however is definitely the 310/37 by Voigtländer, but it is a rare collecotr's item and expensive (usually north of 50 Euros). So I would say for practical purposes, the Agfa is the best.

John

Today I bought a Kodak badged 37 mm push on plastic lens hood.


I have an additional question regarding the double exposure lock:

On my Record II the indicator is white when I have wound the film for the next exposure and red after pushing the shutter release.

Is this right or did someone do a mistake while reassembling the lock?

At my Zeiss Ikonta 524/16 red says "ready to take a picture" and white "you should advance the film".

 

[citizen99]

Hello Thomas78,
I have an Agfa Record III which indicates the same as your camera. After I have taken an exposure my camera indicator
changes to RED dot and when I wind on the film to make another exposure it changes to White dot. So I am sure yours is OK.

+1 🙂
Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters. OK,OK.
Just to show that the model is consistent 😀

 

[Thomas78]

Hello Thomas78,
I have an Agfa Record III which indicates the same as your camera. After I have taken an exposure my camera indicator changes to RED dot
and when I wind on the film to make another exposure it changes to White dot. So I am sure yours is OK.

+1 🙂
Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters. OK,OK.
Just to show that the model is consistent 😀

Thank you PAN F and citizen99 for your confirmation !

Now I know that there is a difference between Agfa and Zeiss... 😉