farlymac
PF McFarland
Well, back to the grind. Got this type 6 in this morning, and on first glance, seemed like one that wouldn't need much work. I mean, the focus wasn't frozen! Not a sign of the old Bayer grease/cement. But then the shutter didn't work. I was hoping it was just a matter of a sticky escapement, so I opened it up for a cleaning.
Sure enough, there was molycoat in quite a few places, including the escapement. So I took the escapement out, and gave it a Ronsonol bath. After getting it back together, the shutter still would not work properly. There was no run-out of the escapement, and there was no opening of the shutter blades.
Upon further investigation, I found the drive lever to the delay mechanism just lying in the bottom of the shutter, not attached to anything. Took the delay out to see why the lever would come loose, and it became apparent it's not the original lever. After studying some photos of a Synchro-Compur, it would seem that the delay end of the lever is too big to fit on the mounting pin properly, and it won't clear the tension spring of the delay (see photos below).
Delay Mechanism Drive Lever by br1078phot, on Flickr
Not quite the way I found it, but it was loose from the delay mechanism.
Delay Mechanism Drive Lever Pin by br1078phot, on Flickr
I’m thinking the end of the drive lever that sits here is supposed to go under the tail of the tension spring.
Delay Mechanism by br1078phot, on Flickr
The hole on the end of the Drive Lever that fits on the Delay Mechanism is too large, and so the lever won’t fit on the mounting pin.
Synchro-Compur Delay Mechanism by br1078phot, on Flickr
This is what I think the lever on the Compur-Rapid is supposed to look like.
My first thought is to swap the delay from a Synchro-Compur into the Compur-Rapid, as it looks like the same mechanism. But I would like to see a photo of a delay from this particular style of Compur-Rapid (late or post 1950's Agfa Silette) to see if the drive lever is the same as that in the Synchro.
Thanks in advance
PF
Sure enough, there was molycoat in quite a few places, including the escapement. So I took the escapement out, and gave it a Ronsonol bath. After getting it back together, the shutter still would not work properly. There was no run-out of the escapement, and there was no opening of the shutter blades.
Upon further investigation, I found the drive lever to the delay mechanism just lying in the bottom of the shutter, not attached to anything. Took the delay out to see why the lever would come loose, and it became apparent it's not the original lever. After studying some photos of a Synchro-Compur, it would seem that the delay end of the lever is too big to fit on the mounting pin properly, and it won't clear the tension spring of the delay (see photos below).
Delay Mechanism Drive Lever by br1078phot, on Flickr
Not quite the way I found it, but it was loose from the delay mechanism.
Delay Mechanism Drive Lever Pin by br1078phot, on Flickr
I’m thinking the end of the drive lever that sits here is supposed to go under the tail of the tension spring.
Delay Mechanism by br1078phot, on Flickr
The hole on the end of the Drive Lever that fits on the Delay Mechanism is too large, and so the lever won’t fit on the mounting pin.
Synchro-Compur Delay Mechanism by br1078phot, on Flickr
This is what I think the lever on the Compur-Rapid is supposed to look like.
My first thought is to swap the delay from a Synchro-Compur into the Compur-Rapid, as it looks like the same mechanism. But I would like to see a photo of a delay from this particular style of Compur-Rapid (late or post 1950's Agfa Silette) to see if the drive lever is the same as that in the Synchro.
Thanks in advance
PF
citizen99
Well-known
farlymac
PF McFarland
Oh, it's not coincidence at all, as we collaborate quite often, John (Mucho Gracias, Hans). He helped me make up my mind that it is the original lever for that shutter, and how it had to go back together.
Delay Drive Lever Installed by br1078phot, on Flickr
Delay Timer Installed by br1078phot, on Flickr
Reassembly Complete by br1078phot, on Flickr
Rest of the photos at http://www.flickr.com/photos/7699588@N07/sets/72157639056796423/
Unfortunately, it only worked once. I'll have to go back in and redo the lever, then make a blocking device so that the Delay Timer cannot be used. Or get another timer. But I can't let it sit around hoping that's going to happen.
PF
Delay Drive Lever Installed by br1078phot, on Flickr
Delay Timer Installed by br1078phot, on Flickr
Reassembly Complete by br1078phot, on Flickr
Rest of the photos at http://www.flickr.com/photos/7699588@N07/sets/72157639056796423/
Unfortunately, it only worked once. I'll have to go back in and redo the lever, then make a blocking device so that the Delay Timer cannot be used. Or get another timer. But I can't let it sit around hoping that's going to happen.
PF
gb hill
Veteran
Good luck with that Phil. Nice Agfa, Reminds me of my little Vitoret.
hellomikmik
Well-known
farlymac
PF McFarland
Thanks, Mike. I like the fact it's a Solinar, and that Agfa finally was able to afford to chrome plate all the exterior parts on this model. Much better than that coated aluminum they used on the original.
And thank you too, hellomikmik. I finally looked at that site again last night, and along with the help I got from Hans, it convinced me the part was original.
I went back in this morning, reset the lever, then made a blocking device so it won't happen again.
Shutter Partially Open by br1078phot, on Flickr
A symptom of the Delay Drive Lever coming off the pin.
Slipped Again by br1078phot, on Flickr
And there it is. The Delay Timer ran for about forty seconds, never releasing the shutter blades. When I pushed the X-V Selector Lever (green knob on the left), the shutter then released, but because the Delay Drive Lever was lying loose, it allowed the Shutter Blade Drive Controller to drift, and left the blades open a bit.
My theory of how this happened is that someone set the Delay Timer, then tried to undo it by forcing the X-V Selector back into the X position, which caused the Delay Drive Lever to pop off the bottom of the drive pin. It also bent the mount for the drive pin, so the lever will continue to pop off.
Material Source by br1078phot, on Flickr
I needed to make a blocking device so that the X-V Selector Lever could not be moved. I wanted something in a T shape, but lacking anything around here that would fit in the space, I went with the next best thing.
The shape of this plastic can lid, with it's ridges to make it snap tight, was almost the perfect thing. And its circular shape meant it would somewhat match the contour of the shutter/lens assembly mount.
Blocking Device by br1078phot, on Flickr
After trimming the source material, I fitted the device into the slot of the X-V Lever, adding a drop of contact cement to secure it, though I don't think it was coming out on it's own. Just keeps it from flopping around.
This should keep the Delay Drive Lever from coming loose again until I can get a replacement for the Delay Timer Mechanism. It still allows the shutter to work normally on all speeds, and none of the control rings are affected by the Blocking Device.
Now to go test shoot it. I have a Series V 30mm adapter so I can mount a hood and/or filters, and plenty of out-of-date film I don't mind taking to CVS for development.
PF
And thank you too, hellomikmik. I finally looked at that site again last night, and along with the help I got from Hans, it convinced me the part was original.
I went back in this morning, reset the lever, then made a blocking device so it won't happen again.
Shutter Partially Open by br1078phot, on Flickr
A symptom of the Delay Drive Lever coming off the pin.
Slipped Again by br1078phot, on Flickr
And there it is. The Delay Timer ran for about forty seconds, never releasing the shutter blades. When I pushed the X-V Selector Lever (green knob on the left), the shutter then released, but because the Delay Drive Lever was lying loose, it allowed the Shutter Blade Drive Controller to drift, and left the blades open a bit.
My theory of how this happened is that someone set the Delay Timer, then tried to undo it by forcing the X-V Selector back into the X position, which caused the Delay Drive Lever to pop off the bottom of the drive pin. It also bent the mount for the drive pin, so the lever will continue to pop off.
Material Source by br1078phot, on Flickr
I needed to make a blocking device so that the X-V Selector Lever could not be moved. I wanted something in a T shape, but lacking anything around here that would fit in the space, I went with the next best thing.
The shape of this plastic can lid, with it's ridges to make it snap tight, was almost the perfect thing. And its circular shape meant it would somewhat match the contour of the shutter/lens assembly mount.
Blocking Device by br1078phot, on Flickr
After trimming the source material, I fitted the device into the slot of the X-V Lever, adding a drop of contact cement to secure it, though I don't think it was coming out on it's own. Just keeps it from flopping around.
This should keep the Delay Drive Lever from coming loose again until I can get a replacement for the Delay Timer Mechanism. It still allows the shutter to work normally on all speeds, and none of the control rings are affected by the Blocking Device.
Now to go test shoot it. I have a Series V 30mm adapter so I can mount a hood and/or filters, and plenty of out-of-date film I don't mind taking to CVS for development.
PF
colyn
ישו משיח
Here is a source for repair on every Compur shutter made.
http://benoit.suaudeau.perso.neuf.fr/manuels_rep/obturateurs/Compur-shutter-repair-manual.html
http://benoit.suaudeau.perso.neuf.fr/manuels_rep/obturateurs/Compur-shutter-repair-manual.html
farlymac
PF McFarland
Thanks, Colyn. I've had that site bookmarked for quite some time, but didn't think about it when I went looking for info. I was more interested in a photo showing the delay from a Compur-Rapid of the same vintage, but never found any. All I found were Synchro-Compur pics, or older Rapids, but Hans came through.
PF
PF
colyn
ישו משיח
Compurs are fairly easy to work on. I started rebuilding them back in the early 70's using a couple of books I still have somewhere.
With the exception of the hole instead of a slot your selftimer lever looks just like the one in the Retina IIIc/C.
I just finished rebuilding a Retina IIIc shutter which was non-working due to the selftimer being gummed up. The previous owner charged the timer which refused to actuate so I got the camera for a song..
With the exception of the hole instead of a slot your selftimer lever looks just like the one in the Retina IIIc/C.
I just finished rebuilding a Retina IIIc shutter which was non-working due to the selftimer being gummed up. The previous owner charged the timer which refused to actuate so I got the camera for a song..
farlymac
PF McFarland
Yeah, that's always great getting a "broken" camera. Some cameras can be gotten cheap because of the film transport/shutter charging system. Or when someone puts a drop or two of oil in the shutter area ("Well, that didn't work, maybe it needs more"). I may need to get two bottles of Ronsonol this year.
PF
PF