*ahem*

jaapv said:
Resale does not interest me. It is zero anyway as my camera is engraved with my name. For me the upgrade makes sense. The camera will need an intense CLA in November. It will go out of guaranty coming September. And it is a bit beat up cosmetically.
So 1050 Euro plus VAT will give me new top,botttom, screen and cover, a new sapphire scrreen, a full CLA and a year guaranty. No a bad deal imo. I booked my slot. And I will pay extra to put my name on the camera again ;)
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+1... love it! :angel:
 
Nigel Meaby said:
I've got to say Gabriel. I get a little tired of a lot of your facetious comments in threads on this forum. They don't bring anything constructive to a thread and quite frankly make you look.... Ahem.. A little bit silly ;)
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Then mission accomplished. There are a lot of predictable, off-topic, facetious, non-constructive comments on Leica threads. I just happened to pick one, which happened to be yours.


mabelsound said:
M9 upgrade to M9P. Just sayin'. I may have heard a rumor, that's all.
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Nigel Meaby said:
Surely Leica employees time would be better employed constructing more lenses!
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So...right back atcha.
 
Nigel Meaby said:
Surely Leica employees time would be better employed constructing more lenses!
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Well, that depends right... that's assuming the same people who make the bodies make the lenses. Also, the bodies are one of the more expensive items they offer. Leica sold a lot of M9-Ps already so I guess it was the right move. With the exception of a few lenses, Leica is selling everything they are making it appears.
 
usayit said:
PS> Why are people so hung up on the quality of LCD on cameras? You use it to chimp and nothing else... Its not like you are performing final edits on it.
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I'm not sure they are 'hung up' per se; it's more a matter of a $7K camera deserves at least as good an LCD as say a Sony NEX which is less than 1/10th the price...
 
mabelsound said:
I'm certainly not hung up on it--it doesn't matter to me at all. But it is most assuredly super lousy.
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I don't think so... then again.. I've had worse and those didn't bother me either. It doesn't contribute to the photographic experience BUT it does contribute to the operation of the camera. Which is why I see no problem protecting it.... by whatever the owner feels is necessary. (ok.. $1200+ USD is more than I am willing to spend)

If a lower resolution, lower quality LCD equates to less power usage and less physical bulk in the camera, then I think Leica made a proper design decision.

Lets talk about battery. Its crappy compared to other cameras in the market. BUT if the smaller battery was necessary to maintain current size, then I again... think Leica made a proper design decision.



In all honesty.. the LCD is the least feature in the M-body that i'd like Leica to spend research and money on. I can think of a dozen different features/improvements that directly contribute to the photographic experience.. more so than an LCD used just to chimp.
 
digitalintrigue said:
I'm not sure they are 'hung up' per se; it's more a matter of a $7K camera deserves at least as good an LCD as say a Sony NEX which is less than 1/10th the price...
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Ah.. the whole price strawman...

I have something on the order of 3 different digital systems and probably passed through 4 others....

My comment wasn't towards the Leica crowd but to digital photographers in general. They seem to be all hung up on the LCD quality from one model to the next; regardless of brand (exception below) or price point.


Like the Sony NEX, all mirror-less cameras are highly dependent on the LCD screen as it is the primary tool used for composition and focus. As such, the LCD screen is much more than simply chimping... its an integral part of the photographic experience. As such, it is no wonder that a great deal of the cost of manufacturing and design are invested in the LCD screen itself. I shoot with an E-PL1 and G1, I can completely understand the obsession with a good quality LCD for these cameras... no different from SLR shooters obsessing over the quality of the prism viewfinder on their cameras.

it is also 1/10th of the cost because thats the price point of the market (Business 101... price != manufacturing costs). It also doesn't have shutter, rangefinder mechanism, brass body, etc... I can go on and on.

My Casio watch is 1/10th the cost of a Rolex for similar reasons and keeps time well enough to keep me happy. I can understand expensive watch owners though.. but just not my thing. .... some even have sapphire glass on their watch faces (Breitling watches if I recall)
 
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Heh...yes, I've been in business designing products for many years, I know all about design compromises, component choices and price points, etc.

Surely, the M9 could 'get by' with a higher quality LCD. I mean, $1295 for sapphire? How about charge $600 for a better LCD instead? That's the entire retail price of a NEX. :)

Interesting things Leica can get away with, for sure.
 
For me, it's just incentive to turn off preview entirely. On my DSLR, I often "edit" a shoot by deleting pictures before uploading them into lightroom...with the M9, shots that look like misses on the LCD turn out to have been terrific.
 
LCD screen

LCD screen

I agree that we all would like to have better LCD if we didn't have to compromise anything else than price. It is one of those nice-to-have's. But, if a compromise needs to be made functionally, then I say scrap better LCD. I used to chimp all my shots, but as I got more comfortable with the camera and came to my senses, I turn off the review and hardly look at it other than for exposure.
 
A better LCD would help when evaluating exposure, for sure. But this discussion is really tied to the $1295 sapphire to protect said 'crappy LCD.'

Imagine purchasing a Maybach, and getting vinyl interior. Yes, vinyl is functional, just like the M9 LCD is functional. ;)
 
Yeah, that is what I mean. I don't mind the afterthought LCD, but that's a hell of a lot of dough to protect it. Especially considering that, say, a whole iPhone 4 costs $600 unlocked and has three times as much unscratchable glass--protecting, incidentally, the best display ever put on a portable device!
 
If the issue is the cost of a screen upgrade, then what is surprising? After all, we are talking Leica prices. Just part of the cost of admission IMO. It's about the same issue as buying a European car in the late 1990s and griping about no cup holders when even my crappy old Camry had them. My wife has the 95 E420 with not one cupholder, the Camry and the cupholders went to the boneyard 4 years ago.

LCD quality? Meh. A small luxury camera manufacturer is a little behind the current technology of the Japanese in this area. Again, what else is new?

Is the LCD better on the S2, the true "Rolls Royce" of Leica cameras? :confused:
 
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digitalintrigue said:
Imagine purchasing a Maybach, and getting vinyl interior. Yes, vinyl is functional, just like the M9 LCD is functional. ;)
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Interesting analogy since the same can be applied to the decision to use sapphire glass.


btw.. you shouldn't use the LCD to evaluate exposure (for any camera)... Histogram is the more accurate and you don't need a high quality LCD display to evaluate a histogram.



PS> Have you looked at the newest Maybach's????? They are rebranded Mercedes....
 
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Double Negative said:
For one thing, the previews are generated from the rather low-res JPEG preview image. A higher resolution screen won't help you anyway until Leica fixes this annoying issue first. This is the same reason that you have to shoot in DNG+JPEG mode if you intend to view anything other than a postage stamp on an iPad, for example. Argh.
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Bingo... one area I'd like to see improvement and investment rather than the whole LCD display.
 
jsrockit said:
Well, that depends right... that's assuming the same people who make the bodies make the lenses. Also, the bodies are one of the more expensive items they offer. Leica sold a lot of M9-Ps already so I guess it was the right move. With the exception of a few lenses, Leica is selling everything they are making it appears.
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Yes I know it was a big assumption :D

I'm all for the M9-P it looks great but having already bought an M9 that does everything the M9-P does I don't need the cosmetic upgrade. Ok LCD screen is more hard wearing but a decent screen protector does a good enough job. I also don't have anything against people paying for the upgrade. I'm all for personal choice in a... ahem.. 'free' world ;)

I'm very happy to see Leica doing well as it means potentially better products will be introduced in the future. But it is a pity that new lenses such as the 35 Summilux FLE are introduced, but even if I could afford one and/or wanted to buy one, they are in such short supply that it would prove difficult to get hold of one, without a very long wait.

I'm sure Leica are taking steps to increase supply of lenses and maybe the popularity of the M9 caught them by surprise... and I could probably come up with many more excuses for them...but...but!! :bang:
 
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