AI is helping me decide whether to buy a Leica M10!

[Rob-F]

So, I typed into Google, "Talk me out of adding a Leica M10 to my M9." Here's what the AI genie said:

AI Overview
If you are happy with your Leica M9, the primary reason to resist the M10 is that it represents an evolutionary upgrade, not a revolutionary one
. While it improves on many technical aspects of the M9, it deliberately sheds some of the character that makes the older CCD-sensor camera so special to its fans. Keeping your M9 allows you to fully appreciate the unique qualities of the CCD sensor without incurring the significant financial cost of the M10.

The "CCD magic" and colors of the M9
Your M9 uses a Kodak-designed CCD sensor that is legendary for its color rendering, often described as having an "analog" or "filmic" quality.

• The M9 produces a distinct palette with colors that pop, which some feel are more organic and true to life—like digital slide film.
• By contrast, the M10's CMOS sensor, while more advanced, is noted to be more neutral and requires more post-processing to achieve a similar vibrant look.
• Many M9 owners feel that the "magic" of its specific image rendering is a quality you can't replicate in post-production and is reason enough to stick with it.

A return to "film-like" shooting
The M9 is an older, more stripped-down digital camera, which forces a slower, more deliberate photographic style that some users find appealing.

• The slower buffer, lower resolution, and limited dynamic range require you to be more precise with your exposure and composition. This disciplined approach can, ironically, make you a better photographer.
• The M10, with its faster processor, better low-light performance, and live view, can feel "too perfect" to photographers who prefer the simplicity and constraints of older digital bodies.

The cost of an incremental upgrade
Adding an M10 would be a significant expense for a camera that doesn't completely eclipse the M9 where it matters most to you.

• Used M10 bodies sell for $4,000–$6,000 or more, which is a lot to pay for an upgrade that may not satisfy you artistically.
• You are already invested in the M-system and have a camera capable of producing beautiful images in most lighting conditions. The money could be better spent on adding a different lens or taking a photography trip.

Risk of disappointment
While the M10 has many objective improvements—higher usable ISO, a faster processor, and better battery life—you might not prefer the resulting images.

• Photographers who have switched from an M9 to an M10 have reported missing the "texture" and color of their old camera.
• Others have gone so far as to sell their M10 to return to an M9 after feeling something was missing from the new camera's files. This is a risk you take when chasing modern perfection over a classic, imperfect, and cherished aesthetic.

The verdict
Your M9 is a fantastic tool with a unique character that is increasingly rare in modern digital cameras. If you love the images it creates, you don't need a newer camera. The M10 is an objectively better camera in many respects, but those improvements come at the cost of the very "magic" that makes the M9 special. Keeping your M9 isn't just about saving money; it's about preserving a specific, cherished photographic experience.

 

[Rob-F]

Here is the more in-depth "dive deeper" pert"
Talk me out of adding a Leica M10 to my M9

While a Leica M10 offers significant technological improvements over the M9, sticking with your current camera preserves a unique aesthetic and shooting experience that the M10 lacks
. The decision rests on whether you want a modern, flexible tool or prefer the distinct, more "filmic" output of the classic CCD sensor.

Argument for keeping your M9: The unique CCD sensor look
The primary reason to resist the M10 is the singular character of the M9's CCD sensor. Unlike the more neutral, modern look of the M10's CMOS sensor, the
M9 produces images with a unique and celebrated aesthetic
.

• Distinct color rendition: Many photographers describe the M9's color output as having a special depth, often compared to shooting analog slide film. The colors are rich, with a certain pop or "3D effect" that some users feel is lost in the more realistic, clinical rendering of the M10.
• A more considered process: The M9 demands a slower, more deliberate shooting style. Its poor high-ISO performance forces you to master available light and be more thoughtful with your exposures. If you love the craft of photography as much as the final result, this more pure and simple user experience is a major asset, not a drawback.
• Simplicity of design: The M9's simple interface and limited menu options mean you spend less time fussing with settings and more time focusing on capturing the moment.
• Analog feel: The mechanical shutter sound is louder on the M9, adding to the haptic, mechanical feel of shooting with a traditional Leica M camera. For many, this analog experience is a core part of the Leica appeal.

Argument against adding an M10: It's an incremental and expensive change. The M10 is not a revolutionary leap forward, but an iterative one. For a price of over $4,000 for a used model, you have to decide if the modern features are truly worth sacrificing the M9's distinctive charm.

• Modern but less magical files: The M10's CMOS sensor offers higher resolution (24MP vs 18MP), vastly superior high-ISO performance, and better dynamic range. However, the files are also more "modern" and neutral, requiring more post-processing to achieve a look that some feel is not as magical as the M9's output. Some M9 owners have found that the M10 files at higher ISOs can look desaturated and "washed out".
• Redundant gear: Do you need two digital M bodies? Unless your M9 is unreliable or your primary work requires better low-light capability, the M10 may end up sitting on a shelf. The money spent on the M10 could be put towards something that truly complements your existing kit, like a new lens, a film M body, or a high-quality printer.
• Is it an upgrade or a replacement? If you buy an M10, you may find yourself using it as a direct replacement for the M9, causing you to lose the M9's unique signature.
• Still a slow experience: While the M10 is faster than the M9, it is still a deliberate, manual-focus rangefinder. If you desire speed and convenience, a more modern, autofocus mirrorless system offers far more in that regard for a lower price.

The ultimate reason to pause
Ultimately, the M9 provides a specific and beloved photographic experience. If you are questioning whether you need an M10, you may be chasing modern conveniences that are at odds with the very character you love in your M9. If the "flaws" of the M9—its slow pace, loud shutter, and limited high-ISO range—are what you appreciate, then an M10 is not an upgrade but a compromise. Keep the M9, use the money for new lenses, and enjoy a camera that forces you to be a more patient and intentional photographer.

 

[jszokoli]

One thing that was missed, the M10 is quiet...
Joe

 

[kxl]

I'm surprised it did not mention the possibility of sensor corrosion with the M9. Sounds like Google's Gemini LLM needs an update.

 

[Darthfeeble]

First thing I would ask, has the sensor been updated?

 

[boojum]

Let's cut to the chase. Do you want it? Can you afford it? Well?

The M9 has that special color image. Yes CCD is ISO limited and so on. OTOH the images are really nice. My simple decider, "Do I want to be on my deathbed and think, 'I should have bought that'."

 

[JohnGellings]

So, This AI has been trained by rangefinder forum data? 😉

 

[Bill Blackwell]

Well, the AI has me talked out of it!

But in all seriousness, nothing could talk me out of getting rid of an M9 as I didn't like the M9 at all - add the sensor corrosion issue and there's no way (this would not be mentioned as the statement/question to AI is "talk me out of adding the M10). But one thing is absolutely indisputable - the M9 colors cannot be improved upon with the M10.



Leica M9, 50mm Noctilux f/1

 

[boojum]

Well, the AI has me talked out of it!

But in all seriousness, nothing could talk me out of getting rid of an M9 as I didn't like the M9 at all - add the sensor corrosion issue and there's no way (this would not be mentioned as the statement/question to AI is "talk me out of adding the M10). But one thing is absolutely indisputable - the M9 colors cannot be improved upon with the M10.

View attachment 4878942
View attachment 4878943
Leica M9, 50mm Noctilux f/1

There is an M9 button dance that can be done to check if there is a factory replaced sensor. Mine has a factory replaced sensor and circuit board. It had a rough exterior when I bought it which made it less expensive. The exterior does not take pictures. I wonder if you have a replaced sensor if you have no sensor cover glass corrosion yet.

You are right, the M9 is kind with color. This one with the Skyllaney Bertele Sonnar. I have a few other cameras but this old, 2009, Leica still commands respect.

L1002853 by West Phalia, on Flickr​

 

[Rob-F]

One thing that was missed, the M10 is quiet...
Joe

Well, AI treated the M9 shutter sound as a plus, adding to its mechanical, analog, even haptic feel!

 

[Rob-F]

First thing I would ask, has the sensor been updated?

If you mean mine, it has been. I sent it in for the sensor to be checked, back when they were replacing them free. It went to Germany and came home with a new sensor. It's been fine since then.

 

[Patarei]

I had a M10 a couple of years ago, and I liked the files that it produced. I liked them very much actually. Before the M10 I had a M240, but I liked the files from the M10 better. The colors and everything was nicer. Unfortunately the M10 was a real lemon, and I had to send it to Wetzlar two times because of some printed circuits? In the end I sold the camera and told the buyer about the problem.

I missed the M10 very much, so I bought a "new" one I may. With two years warranty.
I owned the M9 a very short period a couple of month ago, and bought it from MPB Eu, but it suffered from sensor corrosion so I had to return it and changed it to a M9M.
Liked the files from the M9 very much to, even if I prefer the M8.

It's a hard choice. Best if you can have them all 🙂

 

[Freakscene]

That AI is hallucinating. As usual. It cannot tell the difference between “true” and “mentioned repeatedly on the internet”. It’s the worst sort of advice - the “here is what everyone says” advice.

The M9 is a nice try from 2009 with some serious problems for real users including a lack of buffer and a mount that has a lot of beautiful fast lenses for it, but a focusing mechanism that is not really up to focusing them wide open on the camera. The M10 is a functional, modern camera with few realistic problems beyond “it’s expensive” and “it’s heavy for its size”.

 

[agentlossing]

Why are we carrying water for AI in this thread?

 

[trix4ever]

If I ask a photo related question on Google I get an AI answer at the top.
If you know anything about the subject, the answers work out at about 50% wrong.
Why anyone would ask this sort of question of AI totally defeats me.
There is a real world out there you know...

 

[WoodallP]

Why are we carrying water for AI in this thread?

I think Nikon AI should be tolerated!

 

[Harry the K]

From "AI, tell me what camera to use" to "AI, tell me what to photograph" it seems to be a small step in the "stop-thinking-for-yourself" development society is going through these days.

 

[Freakscene]

From "AI, tell me what camera to use" to "AI, tell me what to photograph" it seems to be a small step in the "stop-thinking-for-yourself" development society is going through these days.

The dawn of the post-literate society

And the end of civilisation

open.substack.com

It’s not development, it’s regression.

 

[Archiver]

View attachment 4878957

The dawn of the post-literate society

And the end of civilisation

open.substack.com

It’s not development, it’s regression.

That is a fantastic and also infuriating article. It is one I will re-read, and use to encourage me to return to reading with the scope and vigour of my earlier years. Thank you for this.

 

[valdas]

The last time I tried to consult chatgpt it left me furious. I gave the list of cameras and lenses and asked for the total weight of it (I was preparing for the trip). It gave me the wrong answer missing the correct weight by 40%. The biggest deviation was on Fuji GA645. When I pointed this out, it said that maybe the difference comes from “with lens vs without lens”. Seriously, for the fixed lens camera? In some areas AI is really good. When I ask questions about camera gear, it usually misses completely. Just today I asked about the cameras with mechanical shutter with top speed of 1/4000. The list was very short (because it is), but it missed Contax S2. The other day it said that Elikon autofocus model did not exist, when I have it in front of me. Will I fly the plane when AI replaces human pilots completely? You bet…