Altissa Altix take-up spool

[seany65]

Hello all, me again.

I know it's a long shot, but I'd like an altix II or III for the square format (24x24) on 35mm film, but I see many listed without take-up spools, so I was wondering if anyone knows if Altissa Altix cameras, especially the II and III, can use take-up spools made for other cameras?

Any help would be much appreciated.

 

[seany65]

Well, I've been and gone and done it. I've bought an Altissa Altix III, which came with a take-up spool. Unfortunately, the only slot in it that can take the film leader, doesn't catch onto the film and when the film is in it, the film doesn't (or wouldn't if it was in the camera) travel horizontally, and I can't find a way of attaching the film to the take-up spool so that the film would travel horizontally.

I can't find any online pdf manual for the Altix I, II or III, only the IV which is full-frame 35mm and the manual does not show how the film fits into/onto the take-up spool which may be different anyway due to the camera being later.

Has anyone got any idea how to load these things?

The film goes from the film spool to the take up spool outside the camera and then the whol thing slips up the cameras' bottom, much like it does on an old Leica, but a central part of the back does fold out to make loading easier.

I'ts just occurred to me that perhaps the film leader needs to be cut as it does with Leica (and I presume old zorkis and feds) so the film travels horizontally, but that doesn't help with attaching the leader to the take-up spool.

Any help would be much appreciated.

 

[JeffS7444]

I think that the reason you had difficulty in finding a camera with a film spool is because the spool is just an ordinary part taken from a 35 mm film cassette. My Altix V came such a modern plastic spool, with the shorter of the protruding axles sawn off (but I don't know if this is necessary). And because such spools usually aren't equipped with any sort of handy leader attachment points, just use adhesive tape - that's exactly the previous owner of my camera did.

 

[seany65]

Thanks for the idea, Jeffs. I'm beginning to think that it may be a good idea to see if a spool that a fed2 would use could fit. I'll have to wait until next Saturday though, when I can take the camera to a 2nd hand camera shop. I suppose I'd better do that before committing to get the shutter serviced, as the slower speeds seems rather inconsistant with themselves - sometimes slower or faster than they should be, sometimes seeming to be the same length as some of the other speeds.

It's interesting what you say about the spools being from film cassettes. Was this done by Altissa or has it been done by users who've lost the original spools? I suppose the latter is more likely as everything else on these cameras is either metal, glass, leather or whatever the black stuff on the body is that they replaced the leather with.

 

[seany65]

Well, the fed 2 take-up spool idea won't work. Hadn't realised that the spool slides onto a wide thingy at the top, so it won't be able to slide onto the tiny, narrow thingy at the top of an Altix III.

I began to wonder about a fed 1 spool as a replacement, but I've not been able to see the size of the thingy (I'm sure "thingy" is the correct technical term!) it slides onto in the fed 1.

 

[JeffS7444]

I began to wonder about a fed 1 spool as a replacement, but I've not been able to see the size of the thingy (I'm sure "thingy" is the correct technical term!) it slides onto in the fed 1.

No, you'd need to modify it, otherwise it's a little bit too wide and it lacks the cross piece which engages with the film transport "fork". It's the same situation with the Barnack Leica part. But you could probably improvise something using a modern Kodak spool (nicely un-slotted) and some sort of home-made spring clip.

 

[seany65]

Thanks Jeffs, so the fed 1 has basically the same spool arrangement as the fed 2.

I have just managed to load the ruddy thing!

There's a clip by Yaniv Berman on youtube called "Altix V - My Photographic Time Tunnel", and in that he trims the leader so that the end fits more or less halfway up the take-up spool, and it slots into the spool and doesn't slip out, he then puts the spools and film in the camera and fires one shot and turns the film counter to 1 mark past 35.

I'm not completely sure I've been doing it correctly, as the rewind spool doesn't turn for the first couple of shots, and only turns a bit on subsequent shots. It's also hard to tell when rewinding how close I am to the leader being where it would come out of the take-up spool on a normal camera, as the little metal plate in the take-up spool absolutely HATES letting go of the film, and so far I've had to take both spools and film out so that I can wiggle the leader out. Or rather so that I can snap the leader out of the spool and use a pair of tweezers to get out the bit of leader that remains stuck in the spool.

Hopefully I'll improve with practice, and the little metal plate will become loose enough to not have to fight it.

Jeffs, I've just noitced what you wrote about the shorter of the two axles having been cut off, mine still has both axles, as does the on Yaniv has in the video. Mind you, mine's a III and Yaniv's is a V so there could be a slight difference.

 

[seany65]

I think I've managed to b***** up the take up spool, lol.😱🙄.

I'd been poking some tweezers into the slot in the spool to try and "loosen" the metal plate just enough to allow the film leader to come out when rewinding, but I did it too much and now it won't grip the leader.

It looks like I'll have to tape the leader to the spool. I tried it last night (at about 1 am.) and the only problem is trying to rewind without the tape going into the cassette, which means stopping before then BUT it's hard to stop it before the sticky bit rubs all over the bit with the horizontal grooves around the film gate. Don't want glue getting onto the emulsion side of the next film.

I'm going to need a lot of practice at rewinding just enough to stop the tape coming off the spool.

 

[JeffS7444]

I'm not completely sure I've been doing it correctly, as the rewind spool doesn't turn for the first couple of shots, and only turns a bit on subsequent shots. It's also hard to tell when rewinding how close I am to the leader being where it would come out of the take-up spool on a normal camera, as the little metal plate in the take-up spool absolutely HATES letting go of the film

When loading the spool into the camera, press down on end of spool as you advance the film knob: You may feel the spool drop in further as it engages with the film wind "fork". Make sure sprocket holes are meshing with film counter gear, then close the camera and shoot!

As for the matter of using tape to hold film onto to the spool: Don't sweat it too much. It really doesn't matter whether or not film is released from take-up spool when you rewind it, since you need to remove said spool in order to load the next roll of film anyhow.

Slotted spool shown in your video looks like modern part used by pretty much all film makers except Kodak.

 

[seany65]

Jeffs, thanks for the extra info.

I have seen in a clip for a different camera, the rewind lever not turning when the film was wound on, so the poster turned the rewind knob in it's rewind direction to take up the slack and then the it turned when the fim was wound on. I'm not sure if there's much slack in the filme when I load but I'm going to try that.

Is there any way to know exactly how far the film has been rewound? I wouldn't normally need to think about it, but with this camera I have to stop the film rewinding before the tape goes into the cassette?

I'd better make it clear the video I linked to isn't mine, it was posted by Yaniv Berman, the camera in it is his and he filmed it.

 

[JeffS7444]

Is there any way to know exactly how far the film has been rewound? I wouldn't normally need to think about it, but with this camera I have to stop the film rewinding before the tape goes into the cassette?

Not really, but why does it matter? If the leader gets pulled into the cassette, just retrieve it with leader retriever tool.

Here's a little tip about adhesive tapes: You generally get what you pay for. A couple of my go-to favorites are genuine 3M-brand drafting tape and blue painter's tape. The adhesives have hardened a bit over the years, but still release cleanly and don't leave gooey residue everywhere. You want perfectionist-quality, buy yourself a roll of polyimide adhesive tape (aka Dupont Kapton). Even no-name stuff from China ought to be fine. Looks like clear orange tape and is commonly used inside notebook computers because it can withstand heat without drying out, hardening or turning into a gooey mess.

 

[seany65]

Thanks for the info Jeffs. It's not the leader itself that I'm worried about, it's getting tape inside the cassette and it doing some sort of damage.

Am I right it thinking that the take-up spool for an Ihagee Exa wouldn't be any good for the Atix III? If not, I have to "Bah! It's even got a metal thing on the outside under which the film leader is slid", which would be just what I need.

 

[JeffS7444]

It's not the leader itself that I'm worried about, it's getting tape inside the cassette and it doing some sort of damage.

I repeat: Why does it matter? Worst case scenario is that it leaves a smudge on the base side of the outermost layer of film which gets thrown away anyway.

Am I right it thinking that the take-up spool for an Ihagee Exa wouldn't be any good for the Atix III?

Ain't got an Exa, so I can't check that for you.

 

[seany65]

Thanks for the reply Jeffs.