meandihagee
Well-known
hello,
i need a 21mm. the skopar is highly regarded everywhere I look. however I keep asking myself if i'm not going to regret not getting the 21/4.5 zm...
how does it work in real life for you? i will be using for color.
i need a 21mm. the skopar is highly regarded everywhere I look. however I keep asking myself if i'm not going to regret not getting the 21/4.5 zm...
how does it work in real life for you? i will be using for color.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
I've been using it for some time. It's a very good lens, how much better or worse than the Zeiss or Leica I don't know since I don't own them. I use it a lot with the Ricoh GXR, the Leica M4-2 and just took a couple of shots using it with the M9:
(The vignetting is post-processing, not what the lens produces.)
In the second photo above, you see a canvas wrap on the wall. That was made with the Skopar 21mm and GXR in Dublin last October and represents about 60% of the full frame, at ISO 1600 ... It was a very dim, rainy day. The quality is amazing for such miserable shooting circumstances and a 20x35 inch print.
(The vignetting is post-processing, not what the lens produces.)
In the second photo above, you see a canvas wrap on the wall. That was made with the Skopar 21mm and GXR in Dublin last October and represents about 60% of the full frame, at ISO 1600 ... It was a very dim, rainy day. The quality is amazing for such miserable shooting circumstances and a 20x35 inch print.
robbeiflex
Well-known
It's called Color Skopar for a reason! Well, marketing/branding may actually be the reason, but in practice I found it to be a great lens. Wonderfully sharp, contrasty and great colour rendition, in a compact and very flare resistant package. Great value for money. I only sold it because I developed a tendency to prefer the 15 mm CV for ultra-wide and a 28mm ZM for more regular use as a wide angle. I say go for the CV. I think Zeiss lenses are great, and use the C-Sonnar and the Biogon constantly, but in the case of the 21mm I don't see what the 1/3 stop lower at a much greater price is going to add. That said, sometimes lenses just transcend logic and do something magical, like the C-Sonnar, and as I have not tried the ZM 21mm please take the above with a grain of salt.
Rob
Rob
Bob Michaels
nobody special
It depends.
If you are one of those who are anal obsessive about perceived image quality, or one of those who think your photos with a $450 lens could never be as good as ones taken with a $1,200 lens, then you need the ZM.
But if you are one of those who objectively looks at a photo for what it says to you, the Skopar will serve you well.
I am happy with the 21mm Skopar and all my other lenses are Zeiss.
If you are one of those who are anal obsessive about perceived image quality, or one of those who think your photos with a $450 lens could never be as good as ones taken with a $1,200 lens, then you need the ZM.
But if you are one of those who objectively looks at a photo for what it says to you, the Skopar will serve you well.
I am happy with the 21mm Skopar and all my other lenses are Zeiss.
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
Get the 21mm Skopar and learn to use it.
After a year or two sell it and get the 21/f4.5 ZM.
you will not lose any money selling that lens.
Most quality lenses of any era are better than most of the photographers that use them.
Just my 2 cents on this subject.
After a year or two sell it and get the 21/f4.5 ZM.
you will not lose any money selling that lens.
Most quality lenses of any era are better than most of the photographers that use them.
Just my 2 cents on this subject.
segedi
RFicianado
I actually sold a Zeiss 2.8 and got the CV. It's light, small and nice. And I didn't find that the performance of the Zeiss at 2.8 to be to my liking.
Bob Michaels
nobody special
Edward Steichen put it "No photographer is as good as the simplest camera."
robbeiflex
Well-known
Bob,
One block behind my workplace is a road named after Steichen. He was born in Luxembourg. Awesome that you quote him, and some real wisdom in his words. I recently went to an exhibition of his work in Luxembourg city and it was fantastic. Just saying.
Back on topic to the OP, if you want a CV 21 get one. You won't regret it.
Cheers,
Rob
gshybrid
Well-known
I recently picked up a 21 skopar to use on my M9. I had a 21 elmarit but found it a bit heavy and after trying the skopar I couldn't see that much differnce in the images. I kept the CV and sold the elmarit. They're both soft at the edges. Personally I like that in a wide lens so it really boiled down to size versus speed... and of course cost. The CV is so much smaller that I always have it in my bag. Here's a recent shot with the skopar:
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
I agree with Eddie S but I was being kind.
That way of thinking will make one give up completely on the hobby of photography, I like to believe that through constant practice and analysis, one can improve their skill no matter how bad one is at their chosen hobby at the start, no different than a humble musician or sports-person.
The true ready made geniuses and the instant prodigy are very few and far in between.
There is something to be said for doing something just for the sheer fun of it instead of turning a pleasant pastime into a game of golf
ampguy
Veteran
The CV 21/4 (LTM) is a great wide. Less distortion than the 16 (24 Eff. FL) Sony 16/2.8. Contrast and Sharpness are great. Haven't needed coding on the M8. Have not tried on an M9, or compared with the Zeiss.
The size, and CV 21 VF is great too, along with the discontinued leather case that holds them both. I have one set in the classifieds. The CV 21 brightline can be used with a 15 lens when using the whole view.
The size, and CV 21 VF is great too, along with the discontinued leather case that holds them both. I have one set in the classifieds. The CV 21 brightline can be used with a 15 lens when using the whole view.
35mmdelux
Veni, vidi, vici
I recently picked up a 21 skopar to use on my M9...
Outstanding.
Bob Michaels
nobody special
xrayaa33: I agree with you about improvement. Yet, I realize I will never be limited by my camera because it will always be better than I.
I agree with Eddie S but I was being kind.
That way of thinking will make one give up completely on the hobby of photography, I like to believe that through constant practice and analysis, one can improve their skill no matter how bad one is at their chosen hobby at the start, no different than a humble musician or sports-person.
The true ready made geniuses and the instant prodigy are very few and far in between.
There is something to be said for doing something just for the sheer fun of it instead of turning a pleasant pastime into a game of golf
maggieo
More Deadly
Ted's spot-on. The CV 21 is fantastic, it's wee and it's got great ergonomics.
Some of my pix with it and my M8:
Battersea Crane, September, 2007 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr
Housebound, January, 2010 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr
Stockholm, October, 2007 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr
Snowdrift And Tree, January, 2010 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr
Bobcat Working, December, 2009 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr
Jackson, May 12, 2011 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
In a way that is a good thing as it keeps you trying to improve your photography instead of getting lost in gear world like we all seem to do.
Tim Gray
Well-known
By all accounts the CV 21/4 is a great lens. I say go for it; no regrets.
On the other hand, the ZM 21/4.5 is a great lens too. Very sharp right out to the edge, no distortion, and pretty resistant to flare. I love mine. But I did get it and the finder at a great price...
On the other hand, the ZM 21/4.5 is a great lens too. Very sharp right out to the edge, no distortion, and pretty resistant to flare. I love mine. But I did get it and the finder at a great price...
DamenS
Well-known
I agree with Eddie S but I was being kind.
That way of thinking will make one give up completely on the hobby of photography, I like to believe that through constant practice and analysis, one can improve their skill no matter how bad one is at their chosen hobby at the start, no different than a humble musician or sports-person.
The true ready made geniuses and the instant prodigy are very few and far in between.
There is something to be said for doing something just for the sheer fun of it instead of turning a pleasant pastime into a game of golf
Isn't he actually ENCOURAGING people to take up photography rather than discouraging them ? What he is saying is that the camera doesn't matter (even the best photographers can use the simplest camera without diminishing their skills, therefore a less experienced photographer can pick up any suitable, simple camera and concentrate on honing their skills without being hampered by the hardware itself). Even using a simple (maybe also cheap) camera does NOT preclude you from becoming a top photographer according to what he is saying.
He's not saying that, "since even the best photographers aren't as good as the worst (most simple) cameras, we're all useless and unworthy and should give up photography" which would be the only type of thinking (were we to agree with him) that would "make one give up completely on the hobby of photography".
presspass
filmshooter
I have both lenses. I have found the Biogon less prone to flare, but both are wonderful. The Skopar is a smaller lens, especially if you use the Biogon hood. If I'm careful about shielding it from the sun, it does an outstanding job.
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
We are saying the same thing.
I get the feeling that he meant it as a challenge to photographers.
Even as great as a photographer as Steichen was, he was telling us great photography is beyond equipment just like great art is beyond tubes of quality paints and fine weave stretched canvas and sable brushes.
I do not think he meant it so one will give up because great results did not come quickly and easy, most photographers have an emotional investment in their hobby that is not going to get knocked out of them so easily.
Like everything else in life photography is a challenge, but for most serious and mentally mature amateur photographers, it is happily a fun challenge.
__
meandihagee
Well-known
thanks for the replies. I probably will take the jump for the 21, but maybe I will be looking for a 18/15 also.
thanks
thanks