Vince Lupo
Whatever
You might be happier with the E-P2 -- did you look at that camera?
am i really about to return my first camera to the store?
- Thread starter emraphoto
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
- Replies 71
- Views 10K
Kevin
Rainbow Bridge
I told you many moons ago that this camera was not worth the money. Weren't you listening?
Spyro
Well-known
Good thing that came out of my ep1 experience is that I have now developed a very simple way of evaluating new digital cameras I am curious about: I try to imagine that same camera with a film back instead of a sensor. Then, in my mind, I place this imaginary camera in the market of 15 years ago and ask the simple question: would anyone in their right mind buy this camera at this pricepoint? I dont see any reason whatsoever to make concessions in my needs and my enjoyment of photography just because a camera is digital. Same rules apply.
The ep-1 would fail the 1995 camera market test for not having a viewfinder, for the lack of proper optical manual focusing, for the crop factor and for the loud shutter.
Next please.
The ep-1 would fail the 1995 camera market test for not having a viewfinder, for the lack of proper optical manual focusing, for the crop factor and for the loud shutter.
Next please.
Last edited:
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
I love my E-P2. I think it's a worthy descendant of the FT. But I agree Oly's interface is maddening.
I would love it so much if Voigtlander made native manual focus lenses for micro four thirds. As it is I am in the market for the Pen 20/3.5 so that I can do street in a more traditional way with the camera.
You really need to spend an hour with this camera going through every single menu option and setting it up the way you like it. You can get it so that it basically works like a normal camera.
I would love it so much if Voigtlander made native manual focus lenses for micro four thirds. As it is I am in the market for the Pen 20/3.5 so that I can do street in a more traditional way with the camera.
You really need to spend an hour with this camera going through every single menu option and setting it up the way you like it. You can get it so that it basically works like a normal camera.
Paul T.
Veteran
I empathise with this, even though i use a GF1.
It\s OK. The photos come out nice - I like the 40mm lens.
But compare it to any old £50 classic and the user interface is indeed pathetic. Why can a manufacturer not have a focus distance readout? Even something rough, like on the Hexar AF?
IN fact, why does it take at least three button presses to do anything ?
It\s OK. The photos come out nice - I like the 40mm lens.
But compare it to any old £50 classic and the user interface is indeed pathetic. Why can a manufacturer not have a focus distance readout? Even something rough, like on the Hexar AF?
IN fact, why does it take at least three button presses to do anything ?
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
The M8 is guilty of this in perfect metering conditions too IMO.
Considering digital's tendency to lose highlights I find it a little mystifying?
Thardy
Veteran
Sounds more like a compact, than the "slr replacement" it is supposed to be.
xxloverxx
Shoot.
emraphoto, the first time I handled a D300s, I felt the same…
I have the EP2 setup to my liking. The Menus are "extensive", and I like the M8 much better in that regard. It took a lot of reading, and even more "pressing buttons at random until the camera did what I wanted it to do".
However- once set up, the camera takes the picture when i want, with latency comparable to an SLR. The Electronic Viewfinder is "just amazing".
EP2, Summicron 50/2, Aperture-preferred Automatic, ISO200, Manual-Focus
Took the Photo when i pressed the Button.
However- once set up, the camera takes the picture when i want, with latency comparable to an SLR. The Electronic Viewfinder is "just amazing".
EP2, Summicron 50/2, Aperture-preferred Automatic, ISO200, Manual-Focus
Took the Photo when i pressed the Button.
Last edited:
pvdhaar
Peter
Common situation for all cameras..
You've got to be aware that artificial lighting goes to 50 (or 60) cycles per second. You think it's consistent, but the camera meters at one moment in the cycle and exposes at another..
You'll find exposure much more consistent when the shutter speed is a lot slower than that, and at least as slow as 1/30.
ZeissFan
Veteran
I think there are two things going on with cameras.
The first is the Asian approach to consumer design, which is that more is better because in people's minds, more is better. So while it might look flashy or professional, there is a point where it gets to be too overwhelming. Especially when the only thing that you want to do is take a photo.
Case in point: I'm out last week with my wife, and she wants to turn the flash off on her Coolpix. I tell her, you gotta press this button once, then go down the menu using this button and then confirm using this button. Frustrated? Yeah, for both of us. Because this is the 10th time that I've showed her, but she doesn't want to have to learn each of the many button sequences. She just wants to take a photo.
The second thing is that some cameras are trying to bridge that gap to appeal to as wide an audience (buyers) as possible. So a camera ends up with a mix of pro and amateur features. But I think that you can't serve two masters. You should either make a pro camera or an amateur camera.
In the end, it still comes down to the fact that digital cameras are still computer-driven devices and as such are controlled by electronics and text menus that can have a baffling array of options.
There's something to be said for the simplicity of a well-designed camera, whether it be a Rolleiflex, a Nikon F2, a Leica M or a Kodak Signet.
The first is the Asian approach to consumer design, which is that more is better because in people's minds, more is better. So while it might look flashy or professional, there is a point where it gets to be too overwhelming. Especially when the only thing that you want to do is take a photo.
Case in point: I'm out last week with my wife, and she wants to turn the flash off on her Coolpix. I tell her, you gotta press this button once, then go down the menu using this button and then confirm using this button. Frustrated? Yeah, for both of us. Because this is the 10th time that I've showed her, but she doesn't want to have to learn each of the many button sequences. She just wants to take a photo.
The second thing is that some cameras are trying to bridge that gap to appeal to as wide an audience (buyers) as possible. So a camera ends up with a mix of pro and amateur features. But I think that you can't serve two masters. You should either make a pro camera or an amateur camera.
In the end, it still comes down to the fact that digital cameras are still computer-driven devices and as such are controlled by electronics and text menus that can have a baffling array of options.
There's something to be said for the simplicity of a well-designed camera, whether it be a Rolleiflex, a Nikon F2, a Leica M or a Kodak Signet.
jtzordon
clicking away
I just tried out turning off focus priority on the GF1; same issue here. It doesn't just fire. It tries to focus and then fires.
djonesii
Well-known
me and my toys....
me and my toys....
I have an E-P1 and an RD-1, they are way different beasts. The UI on the RD-1 is about as intuitive as it can get ..... In fact, with the exception of formatting the card, everything that I want to do I can do without menus.
The EP-1 on the other hand took quite a bit of time to set up, and I still have not mastered the beast. At the same time, it's just a UI, it may not be the best, but I get to know the quirks of all my cameras, and struggle a bit when pick them up again. At the end of the day, somtimes I just live with it because I want autofocus in that size package AND the corresponding image quality. The S90/LX-3 were just not quite there for me.
As compared to getting an image out of my 4X5 polaroid conversion, the E-P1 is a snap! No dark slide, no way to have the iris opened when loading flim, or not open when pressing the shutter button. I never forget to cock the shutter, or change the speed before I cock the shutter, With the E-P1, the only way I can make a double exposure is on purpose, and if I forget to load film in the holder, the EP-1 flashes a kind warning that says so. On the other hand, not the same pleasure when taking the exposed film to a negative. Not to mention the weight and fixed lens ....
I will comment about the F100 ... coming from the plastic Nikons D50/80/300 to a F3s was a brutal shock, nothing was in the right place. So, I got a F100, two dials, even the film rewind is in almost the same place as format card, it was like coming home ....
I guess I just give the industrial engineers too much slack, it's all relative, they are designing something with an 18moth life cycle and incredible pressure to meet mutiple stakeholders. Not an easy job.
To the OP, I would say, read the manaul some more, play with the settings, you will find the right ones. If not, life is short, get an M? ( insert you favorite number here )
Dave
me and my toys....
I have an E-P1 and an RD-1, they are way different beasts. The UI on the RD-1 is about as intuitive as it can get ..... In fact, with the exception of formatting the card, everything that I want to do I can do without menus.
The EP-1 on the other hand took quite a bit of time to set up, and I still have not mastered the beast. At the same time, it's just a UI, it may not be the best, but I get to know the quirks of all my cameras, and struggle a bit when pick them up again. At the end of the day, somtimes I just live with it because I want autofocus in that size package AND the corresponding image quality. The S90/LX-3 were just not quite there for me.
As compared to getting an image out of my 4X5 polaroid conversion, the E-P1 is a snap! No dark slide, no way to have the iris opened when loading flim, or not open when pressing the shutter button. I never forget to cock the shutter, or change the speed before I cock the shutter, With the E-P1, the only way I can make a double exposure is on purpose, and if I forget to load film in the holder, the EP-1 flashes a kind warning that says so. On the other hand, not the same pleasure when taking the exposed film to a negative. Not to mention the weight and fixed lens ....
I will comment about the F100 ... coming from the plastic Nikons D50/80/300 to a F3s was a brutal shock, nothing was in the right place. So, I got a F100, two dials, even the film rewind is in almost the same place as format card, it was like coming home ....
I guess I just give the industrial engineers too much slack, it's all relative, they are designing something with an 18moth life cycle and incredible pressure to meet mutiple stakeholders. Not an easy job.
To the OP, I would say, read the manaul some more, play with the settings, you will find the right ones. If not, life is short, get an M? ( insert you favorite number here )
Dave
emraphoto
Veteran
I accept that some issues could possibly be as result of my ignorance. I am unsure of what special menu programs the decent manual focus interace part though. Beyond the hockey tape I am yet to figure out how to shut all the light off. I found the ssw light, the shutter release light, the "writing to card light" (which is augmented by a "writing to card progress bar") but I am et to figure out how to track my aperture and shutter settings without the screen on. Hell I would settle for an aperture dial/setting and sacrifice the shutter. I would settle for a lens focus ring that doesn't spin free so I can make up my own distance scales.
I appreciate all the hints folks and I will try them put today.
emraphoto
Veteran
I appreciate that with a slow and considered approach these things probably take great photos Brian, sadly I looking for something that handles the fast and unpredictable.
Brian Puccio
Well-known
To me, that sounds like SLR.
emraphoto
Veteran
I have and work on dlsr's. Sometimes they are not useable for a variety of reasons.
Frontman
Well-known
I too had high hopes for the EP-1. I read the various adverts, and took a look at the early reviews, and all of them seemed positive enough. I then went to the local electronic store (an 8 story labyrinth of anything that runs on electricity) to try one out.
The waiting line to handle the cameras was quite long, and people seemed intrigued with the camera. I finally got to the front of the line and picked up one of the display cameras. The first thing I noticed was a wavy pattern playing on the LCD screen. I assumed it was from the lighting in the store. I liked the controls, LCD screen, and the basic ease of operation, but then I tried a couple of shots and was amazed at the lag-time between the time I pushed the button and the time the shutter actually tripped. The camera seemed to focus out and then back in before actually taking the shot. My other digicam is a D300; focus and shutter actuation is virtually instantaneous. I could already see that the EP-1 would be useless for spur-of-the-moment shots.
As was mentioned earlier, the shutter sound is quite loud for such a small camera, but that's common in Japanese cameras; there are perverts here (in Japan) who like to hold their cameras under the skirts of high school girls on escalators and trains, the loud shutter discourages this practice. Even my Japanese cell phone has an absurdly loud shutter which can be heard across the room.
Anyway, 3 minutes with the EP-1 was all I needed to decide that it wasn't for me. I'm still looking at other options, the Lumix LX3 can be found here for under $300, likewise the Sigma DP1. I'll give them a try this weekend.
The waiting line to handle the cameras was quite long, and people seemed intrigued with the camera. I finally got to the front of the line and picked up one of the display cameras. The first thing I noticed was a wavy pattern playing on the LCD screen. I assumed it was from the lighting in the store. I liked the controls, LCD screen, and the basic ease of operation, but then I tried a couple of shots and was amazed at the lag-time between the time I pushed the button and the time the shutter actually tripped. The camera seemed to focus out and then back in before actually taking the shot. My other digicam is a D300; focus and shutter actuation is virtually instantaneous. I could already see that the EP-1 would be useless for spur-of-the-moment shots.
As was mentioned earlier, the shutter sound is quite loud for such a small camera, but that's common in Japanese cameras; there are perverts here (in Japan) who like to hold their cameras under the skirts of high school girls on escalators and trains, the loud shutter discourages this practice. Even my Japanese cell phone has an absurdly loud shutter which can be heard across the room.
Anyway, 3 minutes with the EP-1 was all I needed to decide that it wasn't for me. I'm still looking at other options, the Lumix LX3 can be found here for under $300, likewise the Sigma DP1. I'll give them a try this weekend.
robert blu
quiet photographer
What is my impression from this interesting thread where I see different opinions about the same camera is that it is very difficult to evaluate any camera prior to buying it. I have not yet any digital (a part my cell) and sometimes thinking about one. But in shops they only show you the "pro" of what they desire to sell and in a few minutes I cannot evaluate all the possible options. As a mainly 35 mm shooter (m7) I was thinking about an ep-1 with 17 mm lens and the optical VF. But I do not like to play too much with menus...ok, not bauying now, still saving money, maybe one day th x1 or the m9...
robert
robert
Finder
Veteran
You are right, it can be a slow camera. To make it faster to operate, use manual exposure. If you are used to shooting film, especially with slide film, it is not a difficult jump. But you are right that AE is too slow when things are happening.
As far as AF, since I use manual focus lenses, I don't find it that much slower. Focus by wire is very slow for manual focus. You can put AF to the AEL/AFL button and use the menu to stop the lens from resetting. This will let you focus at a particular object distance and just shoot within the DoF. I have a 12mm voigtlander so I can guess my focus; with manual exposure, the camera is quite quick.
But the camera is a computer. My film cameras are still faster for me. Certainly easier. But you are going to have to meet the camera halfway--it ain't no film camera.
If you download Olympus Viewer 2 from the Olympus website, you can add any art filter effect, including those in the E-P2, to any RAW image. Don't bother shooting with the art filters.
As far as AF, since I use manual focus lenses, I don't find it that much slower. Focus by wire is very slow for manual focus. You can put AF to the AEL/AFL button and use the menu to stop the lens from resetting. This will let you focus at a particular object distance and just shoot within the DoF. I have a 12mm voigtlander so I can guess my focus; with manual exposure, the camera is quite quick.
But the camera is a computer. My film cameras are still faster for me. Certainly easier. But you are going to have to meet the camera halfway--it ain't no film camera.
If you download Olympus Viewer 2 from the Olympus website, you can add any art filter effect, including those in the E-P2, to any RAW image. Don't bother shooting with the art filters.