An offer I can refuse?

[SpikeT]

I have a friend who owns a IIIC and, knowing my interest in cameras, he kindly lent it to me for a couple of months.

It's a 1945 model with the appropriate military engravings which he says have been confirmed by Leica. He sent the camera for restoration and as part of that had it sprayed in German Naval colours which is completely wrong historically, but he preferred the colour (he is not a collector).

PC060017-2 by pattayadays.com, on Flickr

PC060021 by pattayadays.com, on Flickr

It's a lovely thing and works perfectly (although the lens did not get a CLA and is a bit sticky). When I showed him some of the photos I had got from it, he said that he was really not going to use it as I would, and he would sell it to me if I wanted it.

He is looking for around $1,300. I suspect that this would be a bargain for such a camera, fully restored; but wonder if the paint job has made it completely uninteresting for collectors if I wanted to sell it in the future (or maybe I should just keep it for ever and enjoy it!).

Camera serial is 361870
Fl No. 38079
Lens serial is 529780

Would be very grateful on some views from the resident experts.
Thanks

 

[Pherdinand]

a repainted collectors item (beit a camera, a car, etc) with the wrong/incorrect paint definitely scraps the collector value. Only chance is:
-a clueless collector with more money than sense (there are plenty of those around)
-a user (e.g. yourself)
-using it for parts or using a parts camera's original painted top and bottom to make one collectible out of two...

 

[johannielscom]

Pricey, but pretty.

Few questions:

I'm guessing he did not send it to Leica to have it restored, and somebody else did the spray paint job?

Is that a durable paint job at all, or does it flake when you point at it? (Been known to happen with amateur paint jobs)

If the lens comes with it and the paint job is a durable one, I'd say you can have a completely overhauled and CLA'd camera that is unique and durable at a reasonable price. No lens, subtract USD 350. No durable paint, pass on it.

Just my 2 cents.

I like the looks of it BTW!

 

[SpikeT]

He sent it to a Leica restorer in the UK who rebuilt it and painted it, I have asked for the name. It seems very solid and the detailing on the body is impressive.
Trouble is, I enjoyed using it so much I went out and bought my own, 1950, IIIC! Still, you can never have too many Leicas....

 

[Luddite Frank]

If it is a genuine "Luftwaffen-Eigentum" III-c, in spite of the incorrect paint, I would still think it has value above a civilian III-c.

What lens is with it ? How is the glass ? Stiff focus is treatable, scratched-glass / cleaning marks are not.

And, depending on who it was in the UK who "restored it", and how long ago, that could impact value.

Funny. I picked-up a III-c "Stepper" in Denmark this summer, that also has its top / bottom plates painted grey. ( No military markings ).

Must have been a fashion trend... 😉

Speaking for myself, I think $1,300 is very optimistic.

 

[johannielscom]

Malcolm Taylor, or CRR Luton did the restoration, I presume.

At least that'll make for a quality paint job and a skilfully restored camera, fully usable for years to come.

I'd go for it and if it were a matter of owning only one Leica IIIc, I'd prefer this one over a regular chrome IIIc.

Anyway, happy shooting and post some pictures!

 

[SpikeT]

Camera was restored by Peter Grisaffi of CRR Luton. You can see the camera featured here: http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Leica/page3.html

 

[Mr_Flibble]

Funny. I picked-up a III-c "Stepper" in Denmark this summer, that also has its top / bottom plates painted grey. ( No military markings ).

Must have been a fashion trend... 😉

From 1943 to the end of the war, due to shortages of chrome, Leica chose to paint all cameras gray including civilian ones.

 

[MISH]

the fact that it was redone by CRR LUTON would certainly validate the price for me. I would certainly be tempted even without the Luftwaffen engravings

 

[David Hughes]

From 1943 to the end of the war, due to shortages of chrome, Leica chose to paint all cameras gray including civilian ones.

Interesting, thank you; another piece of this huge jigsaw puzzle drops into place...

I guess due to shortages of chrome.

Regards, David

 

[Jerevan]

If you have the money to spare, then I think it is a very nice camera for use.

CRR Luton does a very good job, as far as I know. Did the repaint also include a getting a new vulcanite cover? I think this is worth some good money for some people, just knowing it was in good hands.

Obviously, in this day and age - from my own experience - it can be hard to unload stuff and break even on camera gear. So see a break-even or better as a bonus.

 

[ferider]

The key question reg. value is if the Summitar is engraved as Luftwaffen Eigentum as well.

 

[Erik van Straten]

The serial number is way to low for a grey IIIc. This one I bought last year, no K, no military engravings and no lens, but 100% genuine, complete and perfect working. The 99th grey IIIc made.

Erik.

 

[johannielscom]

Maybe it didn't start out as a grey IIIC, only as an engraved camera.

It says in the OP that it was repainted, not that it was grey to begin with...

It does say that the current owner claims Leica verified it as a Luftwaffen camera...

 

[Rob-F]

It would be nice to see a photo without the lens cap. I'm guessing it's a Summitar. A very nice find!

 

[MISH]

The serial number is way to low for a grey IIIc. This one I bought last year, no K, no military engravings and no lens, but 100% genuine, complete and perfect working. The 99th grey IIIc made.

Erik.

Eric you always have some good looking cameras, it may be a little off topic but I would like to see some more pictures of this one

 

[SpikeT]

The owner gave it to CRR for a "restore back to factory condition". The body was unpainted and had been marked to the point that only a paint job could make it look pristine. The blue/grey finish is a Leica colour (used by the German Navy?) but was not original colour scheme for that camera.
The camera was shown to Leica who confirmed it was delivered to the Luftwaffe in Berlin in 1945; but noted (with some disdain!) that the paint was not as per the original.
The lens is a Summitar, no military engravings. Optics are not completely clear and the aperture ring is tight. I would get a CLA on the lens if I took it.
The attraction is that I am sure it would be a wonderful and reliable shooter for as long as I kept it, and it does look very pretty. The downside is that it is has limited interest to a collector if I eventually sell it.
Here it is with my 1950 IIIC and an M6 which another friend lent me to shoot with; people keep lending me cameras!

P1230002-2 by pattayadays.com, on Flickr

 

[Erik van Straten]

Eric you always have some good looking cameras, it may be a little off topic but I would like to see some more pictures of this one

Thank you, just take a look at this thread: Show off your Leica I/II/III/LTM Camera .

Erik.

 

[CameraQuest]

The owner gave it to CRR for a "restore back to factory condition". The body was unpainted and had been marked to the point that only a paint job could make it look pristine. The blue/grey finish is a Leica colour (used by the German Navy?) but was not original colour scheme for that camera.
The camera was shown to Leica who confirmed it was delivered to the Luftwaffe in Berlin in 1945; but noted (with some disdain!) that the paint was not as per the original.
The lens is a Summitar, no military engravings. Optics are not completely clear and the aperture ring is tight. I would get a CLA on the lens if I took it.
The attraction is that I am sure it would be a wonderful and reliable shooter for as long as I kept it, and it does look very pretty. The downside is that it is has limited interest to a collector if I eventually sell it.
Here it is with my 1950 IIIC and an M6 which another friend lent me to shoot with; people keep lending me cameras!

P1230002-2 by pattayadays.com, on Flickr

so it was a chrome Luftwaffen repainted to grey?

Nice looking camera -- unfortunately the repainting destroyed the collector's value for most collectors. He would have been better off financially had he have sold it in original condition, then bought another IIIc chrome to repaint. He likely still have a bit of money left offer.

Stephen

 

[MISH]

Stephen.... don't you have a Barnack that was "re-colored" by CRR Luton? While the high dollar price tag that people are willing to pay for a original camera with a little WWII engraving might be gone would it not still be worth $1300?