Avotius
Some guy
Because its a dream, and in their dream they want it to be 1000 dollars because frankly that about all we can afford. Dreams are just that, dreams. Reality is that camera makers have not scratched an itch somewhere mostly because of conservative capitolism, and thats fine, otherwise the companies would go out of bussiness. But in the mean time, people gonna dream.
dave lackey
Veteran
According to marketing principles price should be "the amount of money somebody pays in order to get the benefits the acquired item gives him".
To answer your question Roger I simply think that many people would like to have the pleasures to own/use a certain camera but are not ready to pay the proposed price. There is nothing wrong with this. What is wrong is when somebody says "that camera should cost (me) xxx no more". Unfortunately business is business and does not work in this way.
It seems me strange another effect when speaking about cameras prices with friends or collegues: many of them make comments about spending a few thousand euros for a camera wich is just a pleasure item (at least for us amateurs). In the same time they spend maybe even more money for a carbon fiber bicycle or an high speed motorcycle (which they change each three or four years, not like somebody still driving a beautiful BMW) and these are as well items to get pleasures ...
This is only my opinion which could be wrong...
robert
Thank you, Robert!
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Not sure what you mean. Conservative capitalism? Not arguing: just unclear on what you're saying. Maybe I'm reading too much JK Galbraith at the moment.
Cheers,
R.
Murchu
Well-known
Yes, but who is to say what one regards as unrealistic is actually unrealistic. There are plenty of things I have bought and buy at what I would have previously regarded as unrealistic prices
Murchu
Well-known
Would agree with that, like as in the rest of life, we often only see what we are truly capable of when forced to innovate. Most of us live in our comfort zones the rest of the time, restricting ourself to incremental improvements at best, whereas the reality is that when pushed to the pin of our collar, entire paradigm shifts are possible.
majid
Fazal Majid
The thing is, for small production run cameras with niche audiences and not too exotic or expensive technology, pricing often is in the $2000-2500 range, not $1000, e.g. The R-D1 when it came out, the Fuji GF670, the XPan, the Canon D30, and so on.
Manufacturing in Europe triples the price compared to Asia. Not sure why, German salaries are not that much more expensive than in Japan.
Manufacturing in Europe triples the price compared to Asia. Not sure why, German salaries are not that much more expensive than in Japan.
haempe
Well-known
I think, this is some kind of Leica MM -effect.
If I remember correctly, such a (unrealistic) camera had many sympathy before and after the announcement.
It seems the "so much out of the reach for the most" - price make the people be carefull with their wishes.
Or are you bothered by the kind of wishful thinking?
Of the "I wish the price would be lower" instead "I wish I had more money"?
Steve Bellayr
Veteran
Because these cameras are readily available on a another planet in distant universe.
This happens not just with fantasy cameras. Virtually every announcement of a new photo product at ANY price level is greeted by posts about how it's just way too expensive (whether it's a $100 item or a $10,000 item.)
thegman
Veteran
I think people put a $1000 price tag so their desire appears reasonable, where $50 would seem laughable. Also, I think people want to pay a sizeable sum for something ($1000 is sizeable to most people) so they feel they are getting something valuable and exclusive.
bwcolor
Veteran
I don't know why people do many things that they do. Considering all the fantasy belief systems that wars are fought over, such irrationality seems to, at least, be harmless, but aggravating to read.
Avotius
Some guy
What I mean is that companies are renound for showing off what they could do then not giving it to us. Easiest example would be car companies, concept after concept, but they never actually put it into production because in the end too many people will settle for the beige Toyota Corrola. But there is a real reason for it, there are enough "beige" people that those with extraordinary tastes wont get what they want.
Unfortunatly most of us RFF'ers probably fall into the extraordinary side of the camera market with special tastes and such. Camera companies could pander to our whims and shock and awe us but then they wouldnt make any money, so conservative capitalism.
Yup. That.
Snacks
Established
It's more that we want the equipment than that we don't want to pay the price tag. We just don't want to think that can't have nice things because we're not rich enough.
krötenblender
Well-known
I can think of another reason (and I am sure, that there is more that one reason for that dreaming of a price-tag):The $1000 or whatever price is not really part of the dream. They dream about a camera they know doesn't exist and won't be build by any company.
The price is meaningless in this case, but in our society everything has a price, and if you put a price-tag on your dream, it's one step closer to reality, regardless how ridiculous the price is.
If you don't put a price-tag on, it is guaranteed, that two minutes later someone posts: yeah, but that camera of yours would cost a million of R&D, and you would never be able to pay it anyway, so dump your stupid dream! - And then you have to deal with that instead of sharing your dream with the people.
I know, I dream of cameras. But when I do, I don't put a price-tag on, but I also don't share the dream, yet. Instead I dream of the camera I would build, if I could. This skips that whole part of the discussion.
The price is meaningless in this case, but in our society everything has a price, and if you put a price-tag on your dream, it's one step closer to reality, regardless how ridiculous the price is.
If you don't put a price-tag on, it is guaranteed, that two minutes later someone posts: yeah, but that camera of yours would cost a million of R&D, and you would never be able to pay it anyway, so dump your stupid dream! - And then you have to deal with that instead of sharing your dream with the people.
I know, I dream of cameras. But when I do, I don't put a price-tag on, but I also don't share the dream, yet. Instead I dream of the camera I would build, if I could. This skips that whole part of the discussion.
krötenblender
Well-known
Damn, my thought, but you were quicker.
Austerby
Well-known
It's a bit of fun?
Seriously though, an awful lot of product development occurs because someone, somewhere comes up with a spec - which then goes through the usual product development/market analysis work that determines whether its possible. It may turn out not to be possible, yet, or not precisely, but without that idealistic spec then the process atrophies.
Yesterday's dream cameras are today's retail products. Look for example at the small digital cameras with interchangeable lenses that enable me to use my M-lenses and at a price readily affordable by many. OK, not perfect but really an improvement on what was available, say, five years ago.
willie_901
Veteran
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks
Why do people persist in putting fantasy price tags on dream cameras?
Because they are self-centered. The vendor's purpose is to please them rather than make profit.
Why do people persist in putting fantasy price tags on dream cameras?
Because they are self-centered. The vendor's purpose is to please them rather than make profit.
daveleo
what?
$1000 is basically what most people are ready to drop on a new DSLR setup.
This is quoted from JD Power study . . .
WESTLAKE VILLAGE, Calif., June 28, 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- Online buyers of digital single-lens reflex (DSLR) cameras pay $1,291, on average, for their camera, up from $937 in 2011, according to the J.D. Power and Associates 2012 Digital Single-Lens Reflex Camera Online Buyer Report(SM) released today.
Of course, once people set their $$$ target, they push for the most they can get for it.
This is quoted from JD Power study . . .
WESTLAKE VILLAGE, Calif., June 28, 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- Online buyers of digital single-lens reflex (DSLR) cameras pay $1,291, on average, for their camera, up from $937 in 2011, according to the J.D. Power and Associates 2012 Digital Single-Lens Reflex Camera Online Buyer Report(SM) released today.
Of course, once people set their $$$ target, they push for the most they can get for it.
Jamie Pillers
Skeptic
Roger,
As an aside... the 18-200 f/1 lens WILL exist someday. It just won't look like the lenses of today. It'll be some sort of photon gathering chip with massive computing power behind it. And it'll be in your $500 cell phone. I suspect we'll see something like this well within my lifetime... next 20 years, say.
As an aside... the 18-200 f/1 lens WILL exist someday. It just won't look like the lenses of today. It'll be some sort of photon gathering chip with massive computing power behind it. And it'll be in your $500 cell phone. I suspect we'll see something like this well within my lifetime... next 20 years, say.