Another dreaded ‘should I buy a Leica’ thread

[NathanJD]

I’ve been hanging around here recently and developed a few pics from my good old FSU RFs – a road I found myself taking after wondering why I was using my expensive DSLRs in full manual mode when a cheap film camera would yield similar (read: better) results. I have found myself disillusioned by digital SLRs completely and have recently set myself up with some basic b/w neg development kit and a scanner.

On the whole I am a photography hobbyist who has great ambition to get out of a suit wearing day to day life and get out there and take photos to sell in one form or another. I do have an exhibition in an art gallery presently as well as on an online gallery.

Really all this is heading towards a personal dilemma – to become a lacia-ite or not to become a lacia-ite and if so to what rank do I belong? There’s no way on this earth I can afford to join the ranks of M8 owners – even if I sold all of my DSLR kit and bought second hand I wouldn’t have enough money to get one body and one lens, although if I sold some of my DSLR kit I could get a perfect working M-3-2-1-4-6 and a good example of say a Summicron but then which body?

I’m not bothered by any fangled gadgetry like a built in lightmeter, all I want is a decent set of speeds and reliability, there fore is it worth my while paying more for a younger camera or am I crying out to be the next in a long line of proud M3 owners?

My photography could be described as ‘people in landscape’ and people in general - I’m not one for photographing bees on flowers or motorbikes whizzing around a track, and if that did take my fancy I’d dust off my D200 no doubt.

What to do, what to do.

 

[sojournerphoto]

I wouldn't rush to sell the dslr kit. If you want to make a living at photography there are likely to be jobs where a digital workflow is really helpful in terms of speed and unit cost.

As to the Leica I had a play with an M8 and the viewfinder is not great if you wear glasses, though the rest seems nice enough. But if you're not happy with D200 output I don't know how much better it would be. It seems to be thought of as similar to a (whisper it) Canon 5D.

I'd try a Bessa or an Ikon. You're probably not that far from Robert White to go and have a look. They've got some good deals on R2a with 35mm colour skopar at present.

I've got a Kiev 4k and, apart from the viewfinder am thoroughly enjoying alongside my dslr kit.

Mike

 

[tmfabian]

You seem to be saying you want to be a professional photographer. Doing that with a Leica M film camera in this day is unlikely. Realistically, if pro photography is your goal, the DSLR is the best choice.

I wouldn't say making a living with a leica film camera is unlikely, I know a host of people who make their living with leica films. However, they are all established and editors tend to give leeway to folks that have been in the game a long time. Now if he wants to make a living in the gallery world, they could care less if the capture is film or digital(a lot of galleries still prefer silver based prints due to archival reasons and the unique hand crafted sense they give). But you are correct that editorially/commercially it would be difficult to start out with film only as most places these days pretty much want the cd of the images at the end of the shoot.
But if you truly want one, there's not a whole lot that will subdue that desire.

 

[NathanJD]

Wow, thanks everyone for the fast responses! I don't intend on ever getting into the fast track PJ world, nor do i intend on selling my soul to photography as some studio photograhpers do becoming nothing more than the finger that fires the trigger - i doubt i'll ever make too much of a name for myself nor will i become a millionaire through photography.

I intend on continuing to produce photographs that satisfy me, while offering some for sale as art when i feel i have produced something fulfilling of that classificaton.

 

[Keith]

Have you considered venturing into MF? I sometimes feel that if film is the way you want to go why not maximise the quality of what you are offering!

 

[sojournerphoto]

Have you considered venturing into MF? I sometimes feel that if film is the way you want to go why not maximise the quality of what you are offering!

or move to large format, if it fits your shooting style.

Just be aware that most of the pro world is digital🙂

Mike

 

[NathanJD]

Sorry for the confusion over my original post! lots of words and not much clarity 😀 and thank you for your input everyone 🙂

As far as medium format goes, I’ve long been fascinated by the concept but my concern is that the equipment is no less bulky than my DSLR kit and the outlay to change over will be just as great as, if not more than the outlay to go Leica. The portability and unobtrusiveness is part of the draw to high quality RF for me.

 

[NathanJD]

I don't know what the rules are regarding posting links to your own websites on this forum but you can get an idea of my work to date from my website as posted in my profile. what you see there is ideal medium format photography but then i feel the urge to move towards something more spontaneous - by far my most popular image is the one with a person in it and i think that people are the big subjects in todays art


large format would be somewhat too bulky and too expensive for me at this stage but there's no way I’d discount it 🙂


EDIT: P.S. i did mention that i would only want to offload some of my DSLR kit and am not planning to convert wholely to film, just move the limelight to a high quality RF

 

[feenej]

Keep the dSLR, buy a Leica, enjoy it, keep it for life.

 

[ruben]

Cameras do have an appeal. They are built to appeal. Some cameras appeal is very very hard to resist. They are called "cult cameras".

Now your other side is analyzing what the former one is feeling.

What we do know for sure about these situations? That whatever course you take, the other one will be hunting you too for a long tiem.

In solidarity,
Ruben

 

[ferider]

Keep the DSLR and try the RF. For example, a used M2 or Bessa R2* and CV 35/2.5 is pretty affordable, and will give you most that more expensive camera/lens combos in Leica land can.

Cheers,

Roland.

 

[pfoto]

Nathan you have a good eye and maybe an older Leica combo would suit you. An M2 or M3 (depending on whether you see yourself using a 35mm lens) and a 50's/60's vintage lens would give you the look you are showing in your online gallery and also be a pleasure to use.

 

[x-ray]

Wow, thanks everyone for the fast responses! I don't intend on ever getting into the fast track PJ world, nor do i intend on selling my soul to photography as some studio photograhpers do becoming nothing more than the finger that fires the trigger - i doubt i'll ever make too much of a name for myself nor will i become a millionaire through photography.

I intend on continuing to produce photographs that satisfy me, while offering some for sale as art when i feel i have produced something fulfilling of that classificaton.

Here's some advice I can give you as a pro of over forty years. I started as a PJ in college and shot for many magazines including Esquire, Life and news services like AP and UPI. I then turned to commercial work and documentary. That's where I've been since 1972. I use digital and was the first in my region to go digital. No regrets here. I'm not a hired trigger man shooting thousands of shots but a photographic illustrator basically. I shoot for major corporations like Proctor and Gamble, Bristol Myers, Exxon and many more. It's not about quantity but the ability to confirm whether I have the shot ('s) the art director wants. Polaroids tell if you're close but never tell if you have the money shot. Digital gives assurance that the shot is in the can, so to speak. This is critical today unlike the past. Deadlines are critical and immovable. Huge money rides on delivering the right image on time. Magazine ads can run hundreds of thousands of dollars and deadlines must be met. Fail to meet one and see what happens to your clients.

I still shoot some film in my work but only about 5%. It's for jobs where I have time and the need for a very large file is what is required. I still shoot up to 8x10 film. (rarely)

You can go into this with an ideal view and you'll fail very quickly. Keep the DSLR and learn it. Pick up a 35mm Nikon body to go with the D200 such as an F100 and shoot both. Leica will buy you nothing other than a place on this forum.

By the way, your chances of making it as a pro are slim, 1 in 1,000 at best and with film you have even less a chance, 1 in 10:000 maybe. I'm not trying to discourage you but at least give you a heads up and a fighting chance if you have the skill to do it.

Oh yeh, it takes more than making pretty pictures to be a professional. You have to be a business man and know the psychology of dealing with clients plus a real talent as an artist. You must be a self starter and listen to your clients. I'm one of the fortunate few that makes a very fine living from professional work and a very good income from the photo art world as well. You have to be all of the above and more plus you have to be exceptionally smart with money. A Leica and a truck load of desire won't make you a success in photography.

A retired art director friend tells young artists and photographers "you're not as good as your mother tells you you are". Good word to remember.

Good luck!

 

[tomasis]

Nathan, sell all DLSR the hell out. M2 is good for 35mm lens and M3- 50mm. Leica camera body and any Summicron lens is good to start with. or maybe 28mm Elmarit M if you like landscapes.

I tell you that from based on my experiences. Coming from complicated bulky SLR, leica M is like to come to 8th heaven 🙂

 

[payasam]

I have a film Leica, which I love and which I intend to use for the rest of my life. I make a bit of money with it, from portraits and so on: but for almost all of my work for agencies and publications I use a digital SLR.

 

[SolaresLarrave]

I'd pay close attention to Ray if you still want to do this professionally.

As for buying a Leica, there's no need for a prescription. Money or good credit will do. Take care! 🙂

 

[shadowfox]

By the way, your chances of making it as a pro are slim, 1 in 1,000 at best and with film you have even less a chance, 1 in 10:000 maybe. I'm not trying to discourage you but at least give you a heads up and a fighting chance if you have the skill to do it.

Oh yeh, it takes more than making pretty pictures to be a professional. You have to be a business man and know the psychology of dealing with clients plus a real talent as an artist. You must be a self starter and listen to your clients. I'm one of the fortunate few that makes a very fine living from professional work and a very good income from the photo art world as well. You have to be all of the above and more plus you have to be exceptionally smart with money. A Leica and a truck load of desire won't make you a success in photography.

Nathan, read the above sage wisdom from Ray. Does it make you discouraged? if it does, sell all your DSLR's get a Leica and be happy.

If it challenges you instead, then there's hope yet 😉
You definitely *do not* need a Leica to sell your artworks. You need to start treating your cameras as your tools, not a magic bullet. An artist who knows their tool and treat them as such, will start to have the means to develop his/her vision and style.

For instance, a very fuzzy zoom lens could be a very good tool for a certain photograph. A sharp Summicron may not be the right tool for the job at all. You get my drift.

And Keith's advise to check out MF is not a bad suggestion at all. Tons of top quality MF gears are practically being thrown away these days.

 

[Steve Bellayr]

It seems that you have made a nice start but don't quit your day job yet.
‘people in landscape’ : 35mm f/2 summicron If you get a Leica camera you should have Leica glass. A Zeiss Biogon would do. On the 28mm level go for a Biogon f2.8. But, remember most photographers make a living photographing people who hate their own faces.

 

[Al Patterson]

Wow, thanks everyone for the fast responses! I don't intend on ever getting into the fast track PJ world, nor do i intend on selling my soul to photography as some studio photograhpers do becoming nothing more than the finger that fires the trigger - i doubt i'll ever make too much of a name for myself nor will i become a millionaire through photography.

I intend on continuing to produce photographs that satisfy me, while offering some for sale as art when i feel i have produced something fulfilling of that classificaton.

Sometimes you just have to feed that camera lust until you get over it. When I bought my CL, I though my next camera might be an M6 or MP. Instead, I decided to go in a different direction. I'll bet I end up with another M at some future date, but so far I'm pretty happy with what I have, except I do need a lens or two for the Canon P.

 

[NathanJD]

Thank you all for your wonderful input especially Ray for the words of professional wisdom and also everyone who has suggested a good combo of camera and lens! 🙂

I would like to clarify though that I don't subscribe to the idea that specialist or elitist tools are a means to doing a better job (otherwise I wouldn't own my FSU RFs) and I would like to reiterate that I am not intending on selling my DSLR or move into commercial photography with any thought of being able to 'make it' with a film camera, yet right now, I have no immediate plans to jump in to the deep end with any of my art even though I have a portfolio in a gallery it’s entirely at my expense and I have no delusions that they will be putting my name in lights for it as i simply don't feel confident enough in my skill or my back catalogue yet.

So, for now I’m just snapping trying to find 'me' inside my pictures, to produce pictures that people can consistently attribute to me by looking at the style and feel of the image. I feel that the analogue images produced by my soviet cameras say more about me that those made by my D200 - maybe I feel more comfortable with it in public, maybe the optics render things sufficiently differently to provide me with what I desire from my pictures I don't know, what I do know is that my FSU's break and needed fixing and don't have much of a sturdy feel, I’m one of these people who would lust after a leica until I own one if I bought a bessa or an ikon purely on a personal level. I love the photos that you guys make here no matter what camera you use and when I see them I see a collection of images with a totally different feel to those I see on other forums, where people are not aware of the rangefinder world.