POINT OF VIEW
Established
This one is in the rangefinder magazine. The review is by Hollister, a landscape photographer. The article is very accurate, in my opinion. http://www.rangefindermag.com/magazine/Dec07/176.pdf
super7668
Member
Nice review, thanks for sharing!
Avotius
Some guy
Seems like a good if not particularly detail review. Frankly I think all that can be said to this point has been said and now those of us who are reading reviews are just waiting for that day the M8 shows up on our doorstep.
jbf
||||||
Hey Avotius, i sent you a pm the other day. 
Anyway, back on topic... the review was a good read. If I ever had the cash i'd definately buy an M8. The thing is I dont know just how often I would use it. haha. I havnt touched my DSLR in a loooong time. I havnt seriously shot with it in probably a year.
I've been completely converted to film.
Anyway, back on topic... the review was a good read. If I ever had the cash i'd definately buy an M8. The thing is I dont know just how often I would use it. haha. I havnt touched my DSLR in a loooong time. I havnt seriously shot with it in probably a year.
I've been completely converted to film.
gdi
Veteran
I just got that issue and the most interesting thing in it was the fold out enlargement from the D3 - an amazing iso 6400 action shot.
As for the field test it really didn't break any new ground and was decided subjective view from the point of view of someone who had never picked up a rangefinder before. He seemed amazed that a larger camera with zooms didn't produce better images than a smaller rangefinder with high optical quality primes. He calls the shutter sound "wonderfully classy"
I think it would be a good article for those never exposed to a rangefinder, though, to learn a little about the differences. (I also think it is the first article since I subscribed about a rangefinder in Rangefinder !)
As for the field test it really didn't break any new ground and was decided subjective view from the point of view of someone who had never picked up a rangefinder before. He seemed amazed that a larger camera with zooms didn't produce better images than a smaller rangefinder with high optical quality primes. He calls the shutter sound "wonderfully classy"
I think it would be a good article for those never exposed to a rangefinder, though, to learn a little about the differences. (I also think it is the first article since I subscribed about a rangefinder in Rangefinder !)
gdi
Veteran
sitemistic said:
Yes, polarizers and GND filters for one - and now I am thinking the weak mounting of the baseplate is another for tripod work (after postings regarding failures)...
infocusf8@earthlink.
Established
M8 baseplate
M8 baseplate
and now I am thinking the weak mounting of the baseplate is another for tripod work (after postings regarding failures)...
I've been mounting my M8 on a tripod for landscape photography for eight months now, it fell over once, and have had no problems with the baseplate or the camera for that matter. I posted this review at the PN forum and the moderators removed it. Seems they can't handle anything positive relating to an M8.
M8 baseplate
and now I am thinking the weak mounting of the baseplate is another for tripod work (after postings regarding failures)...
I've been mounting my M8 on a tripod for landscape photography for eight months now, it fell over once, and have had no problems with the baseplate or the camera for that matter. I posted this review at the PN forum and the moderators removed it. Seems they can't handle anything positive relating to an M8.
infocusf8@earthlink.
Established
Germane?
Germane?
The comparison by Canon users to the M8 has been much more than germane. It seems Canon 5D users always bristle at the hint of the M8 comparing in image quality to the Canon. When user proof is offered up the speculative logic starts. If the 5D replacement isn't better than the M8, given the development of current technology, then Canon needs to go back to the drawing board. Using speculative logic I can say (and with some accuracy) that Leica will produce an R digital (a much more accurate comparison to the 5D or its successor) that will blow both Canon and Nikon into the weeds. As far as composition goes, in landscape photography, that is the beauty of digital that allows the photographer the ability to check composition and re frame if necessary so it really is not an issue. Depth of field can be controlled by using hyperfocal focusing on the Leica lenses, something the Canon lenses are incapable of unless ADEP setting is used on the Canon and that setting has changed so it is not as accurate as it was on film Canons. I would take my light weight Leica outfit into the back country any day over a 5D and an equal assortment of Canon lenses. Leica M cameras have been used over the years for all types of photography and that does not have to change just because Canon users think it should.
Germane?
The comparison by Canon users to the M8 has been much more than germane. It seems Canon 5D users always bristle at the hint of the M8 comparing in image quality to the Canon. When user proof is offered up the speculative logic starts. If the 5D replacement isn't better than the M8, given the development of current technology, then Canon needs to go back to the drawing board. Using speculative logic I can say (and with some accuracy) that Leica will produce an R digital (a much more accurate comparison to the 5D or its successor) that will blow both Canon and Nikon into the weeds. As far as composition goes, in landscape photography, that is the beauty of digital that allows the photographer the ability to check composition and re frame if necessary so it really is not an issue. Depth of field can be controlled by using hyperfocal focusing on the Leica lenses, something the Canon lenses are incapable of unless ADEP setting is used on the Canon and that setting has changed so it is not as accurate as it was on film Canons. I would take my light weight Leica outfit into the back country any day over a 5D and an equal assortment of Canon lenses. Leica M cameras have been used over the years for all types of photography and that does not have to change just because Canon users think it should.
peterm1
Veteran
I was thinking about this article over the weekend and particularly about why the M8 may be a different experience from most other digitals, save possibly the Epson. I have recently bought a Panasonic L1 (I would love an M8 but unless I sell every other camera I own cannot afford one, so I got the L1 which actually is an SLR that looks like a rangefinder camera.) The camera still feels like a digital SLR especially when an auto focus lens is mounted. But when I mount say a manual focus Nikon lens using an adapter, then it does feel a little like my Leica Ms feel. (Only a little mind you.) I think that using an M8 would be different to using any other digital camera and feels different too. There is a certain freedom that comes with simplicity. It somehow frees you to be more creative. Sounds odd but I think its true. The author of the article says something about looking thru the viewfinder and appreciating the lack of distractions from composing the picture. I think this says it well.
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POINT OF VIEW
Established
Hi Infocus, you got me thinking. I’ve always believed that, It’s the photos the person takes that proves his worth as a artist, not his words. So I went back and checked his web site. http://hollisterimages.photoworkshop.com/
I’m impressed. I don’t know why I never bothered to look when I read the review. Now that I have Mr. Hollester looks extremely creditable to me. Id like to shoot !/2 as well . Bill
I’m impressed. I don’t know why I never bothered to look when I read the review. Now that I have Mr. Hollester looks extremely creditable to me. Id like to shoot !/2 as well . Bill
Holmz
Established
If anyone is really serious about Landscape I'll trade my 4x5 for a M8 either as a short term deal or longer. The 4x5 cannot be beat.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
That's true - the thing they have to do is not compete with Canon et suis. So the concept of the R10 / which is clearly slotted for the Photokina / will be different from the current crop of DSLR´s
infocusf8@earthlink.
Established
Leica R
Leica R
My reference to a Leica R was to illustrate how speculative thinking can be used to make an invalid point. Realistically though there is some valid speculation to that assertion that was prompted by a discussion I had with our Leica rep. Sometimes I have to realize that he is pulling my leg but I did question him regarding an M9 (not gonna happen for a while) and he indicated that if he were a betting man he'd put his money on a new digital R. Although he cannot openly say what specifics (too bad reps used to be able to let us know in advance) when I asked him if it would be full frame and in the 20 MP range he commented high 20's. I asked 25 MP and he answered higher but would say no more. Would Leica users. pros and newbies buy a full frame DSLR at 28 MP in the $12,000 range for body only? I don't know but the M8 is still selling at $5,500 and I thought it had topped out on price. Perhaps we'll see what comes from behind the frosted glass room at PMA.
Leica R
My reference to a Leica R was to illustrate how speculative thinking can be used to make an invalid point. Realistically though there is some valid speculation to that assertion that was prompted by a discussion I had with our Leica rep. Sometimes I have to realize that he is pulling my leg but I did question him regarding an M9 (not gonna happen for a while) and he indicated that if he were a betting man he'd put his money on a new digital R. Although he cannot openly say what specifics (too bad reps used to be able to let us know in advance) when I asked him if it would be full frame and in the 20 MP range he commented high 20's. I asked 25 MP and he answered higher but would say no more. Would Leica users. pros and newbies buy a full frame DSLR at 28 MP in the $12,000 range for body only? I don't know but the M8 is still selling at $5,500 and I thought it had topped out on price. Perhaps we'll see what comes from behind the frosted glass room at PMA.
Ben Z
Veteran
sitemistic said:
My thinking is that because historically there have always been far fewer Leica R enthusiasts than Leica M enthusiasts, the company won't be able to count on nearly as many sales of an R10 as the M8, which means they would need to price it accordingly. Nonetheless, from what I've read over the years on various forums, Leica R enthusiasts are even more zealous than M enthusiasts (after all, there's plenty of other SLR's out there with more features, better reliability and a lot less expensive to choose from, compared to RF's) and will probably pay whatever Leica asks. Personally I owned an R8 and a set of lenses and I thought it was a fine camera and truly enjoyed using it, but when push came to shove I opted to make Canon my DSLR brand of choice, and stick with Leica for RF. Two ultra-expensive camera systems are more than my hobby warrants, and I use an SLR only for very specific uses that amount to maybe 5% of my total photography.
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Richard Marks
Rexel
Holmz said:
5x4 cant be beat in terms of absolute quality however there are always compromises
its slow its heavy
processing and either printing or scanning E6 is becoming a pain, and unless enlarging really big, the differences are not as big as you may think
sure an E6 5x4 tranny looks increadible but unless you are spendning a lot of money its easy to loose the advantage at the printing stage
I do use my M8 for landscapes and this is the reason for my rather unfortunate tripod accident.
The gray grad issue i get round by bracketing multiple raw images. Its a pain to sew them together but ultimately nice results.
still bothered about the tripod mounting . Am thinking about some means that holds the whole body
best wishes
richard
Holmz
Established
Richard Marks said:
Agree 100% - that's why I am looking for something easier for travel photos.
The big Cibichromes are not cheap...
Richard Marks said:
I know I could do a search - but what is the grey grad issue?
Also the tripod incident?
grduprey
Gene
gdi said:
The tripod mount on the M8 is the same type and method used on all the thousands of M series cameras over the past 50+ years. Only the location has changed. I used mine on the tripod mount 100% of the time my wrist and arm was in a cast earlier this year (10 weeks). I mounted it to my hand grip from the shoulder mount on my 560 Telyt and never any looseness or weak moments what so ever. The one documented tripod mount damage, was most likely a manufacturing flaw in the particular sample. Absolutely no reason not to trust the tripod mount.
Gene
grduprey
Gene
sitemistic said:
The R10 is scheduled for 2008 at Photokina, according to all well known and trusted sources. Your guess at the price is pure speculation. I would guess it will come in at a comparable price to the 1Ds MKIII. $16000 crazy for a DSLR? Have you seen the prices for digital Hassy's? they seem to have no problem selling them. Even for a studio camera $35000 is still crazy.
Gene
grduprey
Gene
Richard Marks said:
What about 8x10? I'm sure it can eat 4x5's without even trying. ;-)
Gene
Richard Marks
Rexel
No it is not the same!grduprey said:
Have a look at the pictures posted on my thread "Is this a write off" Eric Five's photos show the difference quite clearly.
Moving the mount to the middle of the camera creates a greater troque excerted at the edges. Secondly the base plate has a very thin slot instead of a circular hole. This is inherently less strong. The circular older system also has a considerable 'heal' of metal on the upper aspect which I am sure is there for a reason. I agree that the film m does not appear to have this problem (over 50 + years) and this makes the new design very suspect. I am not saying its going to happen to everyone, but this is a depatrure from the conventional design and we seem to have a new problem. One other point, I almost never mount a film m on a tripod, but am more likely to with the M8 for bracketing of RAW images of the same landscape subject. I would like to think that this is an isolated event however there is a second similar case cited on Leica users Forum (May 2007) titled base plate failure. The similarity is striking. The M8 design is still less than one year old, if htis is caused by metal fatigue it may take some time to be apparent.
Best wishes
Richard Marks
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