another question about rangefinder alignment

[rami G]

After receiving (again) my replacement unit (hot pixels, new one: little less hot pixels ; >)) I decided I am tiered of sending camera back and decided to try aligning the rangefinder myself. I followed the various helpful comments here and on other sites. I managed to get it to a much better point than how I received the body. However, I noticed that in close focus the image in the focus patch is slightly bellow the main image, but on long distance it is slightly above, so I guess it would be impossible, using merely the horizontal adjustment screw to get a perfect adjustment. Right? is there any way to solve that?
Also, I tried to adjust the infinity focus. I managed to get better too, but I cannot get it perfectly adjust. The problem is that it seems that any, even minimal change in the screw gets the images to colide on 20 30 meters or so, or, with the minimal adjustment I managed using very little pressure it gets the patch to be "nearly there" on infinity, but not to reach the main image. Again- any solution to that?

apologies for the confusing language (not my first language) and I hope nobody minds that I asked anoter question on a much discussed subject.

I would appreciate any suggestions, 🙂

 

[pfogle]

Rami, my viewfinder patch behaves the same as yours as far as the vertical alignment goes. In mine, the patch is also slightly at an angle (ie the bottom edge is not quite horizontal), so I guess that's part of the problem - the prism (mirror?) moves on a slope. I haven't found a way to fix it - I haven't tried taking off the top plate - too chicken 😉
Phil

 

[Ed Schwartzreic]

This is where the middle screw of the three under the hot shoe comes in. This adjustment swings a lens into the rangerfinder patch's light path. One adjusts it to trim the infinity focus and a bit of the vertical displacement. While there is likely a proper order to ajust the screws, I've yet the figure this out. So I'll adjust the vertical and the infinity screws as best I can, then very gently move the middle screw. I will then likely have to slightly readjust the other two. I do this with a Nikon DG-2 eyepiece magnifier in place, for additional accuracy.

Hope this helps.

 

[pfogle]

This is where the middle screw of the three under the hot shoe comes in. This adjustment swings a lens into the rangerfinder patch's light path. One adjusts it to trim the infinity focus and a bit of the vertical displacement. While there is likely a proper order to ajust the screws, I've yet the figure this out. So I'll adjust the vertical and the infinity screws as best I can, then very gently move the middle screw. I will then likely have to slightly readjust the other two. I do this with a Nikon DG-2 eyepiece magnifier in place, for additional accuracy.

Hope this helps.

Hi Ed,

does this screw help with the shifting of the vertical alignment as the lens is focused, or just with the infinity focus? Sorry, I'm a bit confused on this one. The big screw adjusts the vertical alignment as such, but doesn't make the path parallel to the frame. I haven't played with the other screws yet!

Phil

 

[Ed Schwartzreic]

Phil,

It does both. According to DAG it is an unusual arrangement, but it may contribute to the sense I get using the R-D1's RF of things actually "snapping into focuis" despite the short RF base. Think of the middle screw as swinging a lens up from below on one side and into the light path, then down the other side if you continue to move the adjustment screw. The attached RF drawning (from R-D1 World) shows the lens as moving horizontally; perhaps it does but it seems more to move in an arc.

Whatever the actual physics, the result is that if the adjument is off on one side, the infinity focus and the vertical adjustment are off (actually the vertical is slightly tipped), and analogously on the other side one would get a mirrior image displacement.

The 1 meter adjustment screw is hidden in the bowels of the camera and not accessible to anyhone except a technician. The other 3 adjustments are often fiddly, but a perfect allignment is possible.

Ed

 

[rami G]

Thanks for the help Ed,
but now I am confused. I was adjusting the middle screw and it helped in getting the images merge at infinity and not before or after (or at least as close as possible to that). I thought this was the infinity screw. So it the most left one the infinity screw? I hardly touched the left screw figuring this had something to do with "viewfinder clarity" which I did not understand what it is about. Did I confuse the left and the middle by thinking the middle is infinity?
thanks again.

 

[rogermota]

I've also had to adjust the horizontal and vertical alignment and let me tell you its a pain. any slight movement changes a lot. The process isn't necessarily hard. The easiest part is taking off the hot shoe. Accessing the screws isnt also such a big deal. The thing that takes a LOT of time is moving the screw ever so slightly counter/clockwise and checking the result. Then doing it again, and again, and again...... I think a magnifier cuts down on the trial and error. I wish I had one. I've adjusted mine using a tripod and focusing, taking a shot, re-focusing, taking a shot, etc. The variation I get in my own focusing makes it pretty damn hard to tell exactly if the adjustment is back or front focused or spot on for example.

 

[rogermota]

So it the most left one the infinity screw? I hardly touched the left screw figuring this had something to do with "viewfinder clarity" which I did not understand what it is about. Did I confuse the left and the middle by thinking the middle is infinity? thanks again.

Left Screw = Horizontal Alignment
Middle Screw = Infinity Focus
Right Screw = Vertical Alignment

 

[rami G]

Thanks rogermota, I agree that the adjustment is not easy. I think my eyesight is not 6/6 even with glasses, and it doesn't help. I will try again soon, when the moon and the sun will return to NY, in the current overcast skies it is hart to find any infinity point to use. THanks for the help.

 

[rami G]

Dear all, thanks for all the helpful replies.
I was trying to do my best to adjust the rangefinder. the problems are still the same: at close focus the rangefinder patch is slightly above the main image, at far focus it is bellow it. Besides, the camera clearly focuses closer to where I am trying to focus it. I made all the tests with my 35 summilux asph, which I know to give accurate results at 1.4 on my 3 leica bodies. I feel like giving up the whole digital rangefinder experience, but I just hate to work with slrs . I never managed to adjust the focus to sufficient percision.
would appreciate any additionan input.

 

[rogermota]

rami, from my experiments, here's what i've found:

Left Screw (Horizontal Adjustment):
CW -> moves focus towards the front
CCW -> moves focus towards the back

Middle Screw (Infinity): ?? havent touched

Right Screw (Vertical Adjustment):
CW -> move patch down
CCW -> move patch up

i don't know how you could have a patch that is up and down depending on distance, but might be worth a shot to correct it for close focus and then test it for far.

for your front focus problem, turn the left screw very very very slightly ccw. test and repeat as needed.

i found that it was easier to first correct the vertical alignment before trying to accurately correct the horizontal.

i suggest making your adjustments carefully and calmly, leave it to a point that you a reasonably satisfied and then test and adjust some more the next day. adjusting these little screws can really do your head in so its good to take a 24hr breather 🙂

good luck!

 

[rami G]

Thanks Rogermota, that is very helpful (including the "sleep a night over that" ; >))
However, I am getting furstrated, problem again is:
On infinity, images match to perfection. On close focus the image patch is significantly above the main image. How can that be adjusted? Is that what I need the 1 meter (unaccessible screw) to fix? as it is, the camera front focuses when focusing nearby objects. Hope nobody minds the repeated questions. I really find it hard to get right.
; >)

 

[jlw]

Rami, I understand the problem you are describing but I don't think there's an externally-accessible adjustment for it.

From the diagrams, it appears that the R-D 1 (like the Minolta CLE and various other cameras) uses a relay lens that travels sideways to move the rangefinder patch image relative to the main viewfinder image. It sounds as if your camera has gotten misaligned so that the relay lens is traveling on a slight diagonal instead of on a straight horizontal path. This would make it possible to set correct vertical alignment at any one point, but the image then would be below correct alignment at one side of that point and above it on the other side.

I would guess that there would be an initial factory adjustment for this, but it isn't accessible through the accesory shoe. It would be different from the near-focus adjustment that has been described in some other threads. I suspect that either you will need to make Epson try again to get it right, or send it to an independent repair technician who is prepared to go deeply into it to access the adjustments it requires. (No, I'm not sure who that might be!)

Good luck...

 

[Ed Schwartzreic]

Don Goldberg (DAG) is very familiar with optimising all the RF adjustments.

Her is his contact information:


Telephone
608-835-3342
FAX
608-835-3342
Postal address
2128 Vintage Drive Oregon WI 53575 USA
Customer Service
dagcam@chorus.net
Office Hours
10AM - 6PM Monday through Friday

Ed

 

[rami G]

Hi all,
Talked to Don Goldberg. Explained to him the problem and he said he CANNOT fix THAT problem (infinity is fine, close focus the images don't colide) Spoke to a high level technician in Epson and my RD-1 is back to Epson.... at least Epson are trying to do their best. chapter 4... Hope to get a new copy of that wonderful camera.
Thanks for all the helpful comments.

 

[fgianni]

Left Screw = Horizontal Alignment
Middle Screw = Infinity Focus
Right Screw = Vertical Alignment

When you say left screw, are you looking at the front of the camera or at the back?

 

[rogermota]

When you say left screw, are you looking at the front of the camera or at the back?

Back of the camera...

 

[jimbobuk]

great tips guys.. I've spoken before about the slight vertical alignment problems I've suffered from. Knowing now that I can take the hotshoe off, hold the camera as if taking a shot (from the back of the camera) and turn the right hand screw can help fix this slight vertical offset its very tempting to try.

Changing this screw wont effect the other screws at all will it? I think they're ok.

How can i check for these infinity focus problems? Look at a very distant object with the lens focused to infinity and make sure the image looks converged?

The final question is basically how can i get the hotshoe off? I've heard that it can be difficult to do without scratching the body. How is it done, or rather how is it best done to not damage/scratch the body?

Cheers

Jim

 

[rogermota]

Hi Jim, I can't answer all your questions but here's my experience:

hold the camera as if taking a shot (from the back of the camera) and turn the right hand screw can help fix this slight vertical offset

These screws are pretty tiny and the right one is partially covered so you have to use the screen driver at an angle. Its not particularly hard if you have it in front of you on a table or tripod, but dunno about hand holding it 🙂

Changing this screw wont effect the other screws at all will it? I think they're ok.

Each screw affects something independently. Tho if you do need to change more than one screw I recommend adjusting the right screw first, then the left, then the center.

The final question is basically how can i get the hotshoe off? I've heard that it can be difficult to do without scratching the body. How is it done, or rather how is it best done to not damage/scratch the body?

Its not really that difficult. Once you've done it you'll see that its a no brainer but I guess explaining how to do it isn't always the easiest thing. But I'll give it a shot:

One important thing to realize is that there are two parts to the hot shoe: the hot shoe cover and the hot shoe itself. The cover is the ricky thing to remove.

Looking at the camera from the back, the first half of the hot shoe (that is closest to you) can be lifted up easily. Just use something thin and flat (I used the flat toothpick that comes with my pocket swiss army knife) and slowly insert it and jiggle it about a bit on both corners til they pop up.

Just a note on scratching: if you do things calmly and slowly you can even get away with using a thin knife...

When both sides are free, you can push the hot shoe cover slightly towards you. Now with another flat thin thing insert it on the second half of the hot shoe(part that is furthest away from you) - doesnt matter if you put it in the left or right side. So now you have two thin devices in the hot shoe. Insert the back one in to slightly raise the hot shoe. At the same time, use the front one to pull it towards you.

Once that comes off, just remove the little screws and remove the whole hot shoe.

Hope this helps! And remember: calmly and slowly 🙂

 

[andyturk]

I just took the screwdrivers to my camera with very nice results. The rangefinder's vertical alignment is spot on and the horizontal is good enough so I can focus a 75mm lens at F2. It does take patience, but the results are worth the effort.