Any film similar to the old Agfa emulsions?

[jpa66]

I was just wondering if anybody has found any film out there to be close to the old Agfa apx stuff. I know that the 400 is supposedly being made again by another company ( it's either out now or will be soon ), but what about the slower stuff, especially the 50?

I use Rollei Retro 80s as my slow speed film of choice, and really like it, but I still miss the old Agfa stuff. Are these emulsions still being made by somebody, or are they simply gone?

 

[Rhodes]

Rollei retro 100 and 400 are suposed to be the old agfa apx emulsions! And you can still find bulk films of apx 100. I got one last year and still them in the auction site.

 

[ohoyer]

According to some statements of MACO in the german Aphog forum, Rollei Retro 100 in 35mm is still available, Rollei Retro 400 in 35mm sold out.

The Material is the last Agfa APX (formula changed some time before they went out of business), so you have to be careful which times you use...

There ist also another distributor in Germany, Lupus, that distributes old APX material (Boxes with red dot, Agfaphoto Label on it, no rhomboid), that could have still some old stock of APX400, or this being circulating around.

Company Fotoimpex in Berlin is one of the companies that is behind the efforts of providing successors to the APX line, and the first samples of an 400 ISO film are ready by now, the first coating is sold those days. They tried to get the same feeling as the old APX, but without reproducing the flaws of it.

When it comes to old emulsions, Efke/Adox could also be a hint. Rich silver emulsion, going well in Rodinal.

 

[ohoyer]

Have to correct myself, according to http://forum.fotoimpex.de/index.php?showtopic=2259 Delivery is postponed to August...

 

[jpa66]

Rollei retro 100 and 400 are suposed to be the old agfa apx emulsions! And you can still find bulk films of apx 100. I got one last year and still them in the auction site.

I thought that they were originally the same emulsions, only re-branded. When the re-branded film ran ( or runs ) out then it's gone. Have I been misled?

 

[Rhodes]

I thought that they were originally the same emulsions, only re-branded. When the re-branded film ran ( or runs ) out then it's gone. Have I been misled?

Well, I thought they were being made according the agfa emulsions. Possibly one forum user can enlight us!

 

[Freakscene]

The Retro 100 and 400 are the Agfa emulsions, when they're gone they're gone.

There never was an APX 50; APX 25 was discontinued in 2000. You can try Efke KB25 or KB50 but they're not the same. Fuji Acros or Arista Legacy Pro 100 at EI50 in Rodinal is tonally the closest I have come to APX25.

Cross your fingers that the Fotoimpex/Adox people bring something back.

Marty

 

[Leigh Youdale]

This is the most comprehensive answer I've found to the question. I loved APX100 but haven't found anything (including Rollei-branded product) that matched it, and I was getting confused by all the supposed "rebirthings" of various film brands and extravagant claims for them.

Quote:

Adox film is Efke film simply rebranded - the differences in name a mere
sleight of hand.
When the original ADOX company went belly up in Germany Efke in Croatia
bought all their manufacturing plant and continued making the film exactly
as ADOX had.
Recently there's been a spate of nostalgic revivals of extinct trade marks
by entrepreneurial venture capitalists - this new ADOX company is not
actually connected with the original one in any way except that they now have
the tradename. They also do not actually produce any film but rebrand film
produced by other companies, mostly by Efke. The trick is in the
description, usually along the lines of 'made using the original ADOX
formulation'.
Efke has all the original ADOX formulas, patents and machinery, this new
ADOX has the brand name.
Lately they've been eyeing off extinct Agfa products - Agfa, while no longer
considering it viable to market its own branded photographic film, is quite
happy to make the same stuff for other companies to repackage and market,
ADOX and Rollei are two examples.
Practically all of Rollei's products are made by Agfa.
It's not such a big thing to have the "smallest film factory in the world"
when all you do there is change the labels on film produced by other
companies.

If the ADOX publicity says made in Germany it's Agfa and in that case is
probably the same stuff as marketed by Rollei (the ADOX premium line).
These are the leftovers of Agfa's APX production run and are marketed by
Rollei as Rollei Retro 100 and 400.
The 20 asa film is Rollei ATP2.1.
"Made in Germany" is right, just not by ADOX unless it refers just to the
rebranded packaging - the inverted commas are of more importance than they
look.
Everything else (Art series) is made in Croatia by Efke and is the same as
an existing Efke product.
End Quote.

 

[jpa66]

The Retro 100 and 400 are the Agfa emulsions, when they're gone they're gone.

There never was an APX 50; APX 25 was discontinued in 2000. You can try Efke KB25 or KB50 but they're not the same. Fuji Acros or Arista Legacy Pro 100 at EI50 in Rodinal is tonally the closest I have come to APX25.

Cross your fingers that the Fotoimpex/Adox people bring something back.

Marty

I hope so.

I must have gotten my wires crossed with regard to the 50 - the older one gets, the more the memory seems to go...

 

[jpa66]

Leigh,

Thanks for the info. It all seems so convoluted and labyrinthine for a simple name change.

 

[Leigh Youdale]

Leigh,

Thanks for the info. It all seems so convoluted and labyrinthine for a simple name change.

It looks as if the only constant through the whole thing has been the Efke films made in Croatia. That also ties in with other information I had which was that anything made in the Efke factory was most likely produced using Adox formulations and machinery, but that "Adox" could be made in more than one factory and it was now a brand rather than a specific product.
Fotoimpex have been implying that Efke was going to be phased out and Adox would become the main brand but I now think this might just be a bit of market "positioning". Maybe they just meant "their" main brand?
"Rollei" film is apparently made by Agfa for Maco to market but may not necessarily be identical to the old Agfa films.

Here's a bit more of the information I received.

Quote:
Efke film are cheap films because they're made with old
technology. That gives them great characteristics for artistic expression retro style shooting but makes them quite variable in quality.
You really need to test and embrace the occasional artefacts as artistic "brushstrokes".
In this slow cooking luddite world the lower the ISO the better the results
and that's where most Efke shooters find their place - to the point where
Efke did away with their 400 speed film - it was just as cheap as the 25 but at a cost - the results were too "how you going" when compared to stuff like HP5.

Rollei Retro
100 135-36 - it carries the promise "Film made as APX 100 by Agfa / Germany" so in theory it should act and feel the same as the stuff you know. It's also available in 30m bulk rolls.
Most of Rollei's stuff these days is cobranded with Agfa trademarks to the
point you wonder who is the majority partner - the Agfa logo is so large and prominent it seems Rollei is one of their subsidiary brands.

End Quote.

I don't think the dust has settled on all this yet.
So if I end up not liking the Efke film I'm about to start testing in 35mm and 120, it's back to good old Ilford, Kodak or Fuji and never mind the price difference. I've got enough of all of them in the fridge to not need to buy any more film this year.

 

[Eddie90723]

Agfa are also making the Lomography films color and black & white. At least according to the Lomography store in L.A. That makes them a little easier to find... Urban Outfitters for film anyone?

 

[dmr]

Hmmmm ... would this maybe be re-branded Agfa?

http://www.urbanoutfitters.com/urba...ARTMENT_MEDIA&prepushId=&selectedProductSize=

They have a similar 400 film as well:

http://www.urbanoutfitters.com/urba...ARTMENT_MEDIA&prepushId=&selectedProductSize=

Coincidentally I'm going to be meeting some people tomorrow at a place about a block away from an Urban Outfitters. If I have time I may check this out.

LOL, they also have "from the geniuses at Lomo", pre-reversed redscale film:

http://www.urbanoutfitters.com/urba...ARTMENT_MEDIA&prepushId=&selectedProductSize=

 

[Freakscene]

There are piles of misinformation on the web about who makes what, what is relabelled and what is good or bad. it's relatively easy to figure out the facts, without just reiterating rumours and outright fabrications.

It looks as if the only constant through the whole thing has been the Efke films made in Croatia. That also ties in with other information I had which was that anything made in the Efke factory was most likely produced using Adox formulations and machinery, but that "Adox" could be made in more than one factory and it was now a brand rather than a specific product.

Adox is a brand rather than one specific product. To say Adox is vague, certainly more vague than saying Efke.

Here's a bit more of the information I received.

I'm not sure when this was written, but it's full of inaccuracies.

Quote:

Efke film are cheap films because they're made with old technology.

Efke films are cheap because labor is cheaper in Croatia than almost any place where film is made anymore and that their machinery is old. "Old technology" is much less relevant for market price point than how much your staff cost and a company's realistic expectations about profit. Consider that FP4+ or Plus-X are "old technology" films made on more modern production lines.

That gives them great characteristics for artistic expression retro style shooting but makes them quite variable in quality.

Again, "Old technology" film can be made to the same quality as "modern" film. The problems with Efke QA are mostly to do with old machinery and the technical limitations that this poses. The 'level' of technology has nothing to do with the level of QA applied or the quality of the final product.

to the point where
Efke did away with their 400 speed film - it was just as cheap as the 25 but at a cost - the results were too "how you going" when compared to stuff like HP5.

The Efke 400 film was rebelled Ilford Pan 400. Efke also rebrands film and is not 100% reliable as a source vs brand proposition.

Rollei Retro 100 135-36 - it carries the promise "Film made as APX 100 by Agfa / Germany" so in theory it should act and feel the same as the stuff you know. It's also available in 30m bulk rolls.

Mass spectroscopy-gas chromatography shows that Rollei Retro 100 is identical to APX 100. It literally is exactly the same film from the same last batch as the last batch APX 100 films currently circulating.

I don't think the dust has settled on all this yet.

Agreed. Adox/Fotoimpex are manufacturing their own paper and film and are likely to expand. Efke rebrands film. Agfa Gevaert may stop making films, or change their line-up, but for now they make film.

Unless you inform yourself you're going to make incorrect assumptions.

Adox film is Efke film simply rebranded - the differences in name a mere sleight of hand.

Incorrect. Adox/Fotoimpex now own coating machinery and is making paper and their first batches of film. They also rebrand Efke film, Maco film and Agfa Gevaert film.

When the original ADOX company went belly up in Germany Efke in Croatia bought all their manufacturing plant and continued making the film exactly as ADOX had.

Except that Du Pont has bought Adox in 1962 and manufactured and rebranded films as Adox for some time before the demise of the company and the Adox film technology but not the brand/trademark to Fotokemika. At the same time Du Pont marketed photochemicals under the Adox brand. Du Pont later transferred the Adox trademark to Sterling Diagnosic Imaging, a subsidiary, but Sterling was bought by Agfa in 1999. Agfa did not use the trademark and it was removed from the German registry in March 2003. It was then bought by Fotoimpex, who are unrelated to the original company, but who keep many of its original formulae and some products alive.

They [Adox] also do not actually produce any film but rebrand film produced by other companies, mostly by Efke.

This is incorrect. Adox is making paper and film. The new Adox plant at Bad Sarrow http://www.adoxfotowerke.de/ has Agfa paper and film coating machines and their own new infrastructure too. Mail Mirko at Fotoimpex, take a trip to Germany and take a look. They are very accommodating about explaining and showing what they are doing.

Lately they've been eyeing off extinct Agfa products - Agfa, while no longer considering it viable to market its own branded photographic film, is quite happy to make the same stuff for other companies to repackage and market, ADOX and Rollei are two examples.

This is incorrect and yet also deeply amusing. 'Agfa' is several companies. Agfa Photo GmbH - which made APX - went bankrupt in 2004, but Agfa Gevaert, based in Belgium, still operates but has always mainly been an industrial imaging company. They make a dozen or so film products, including the new Rollei Retro 80s and 400s films.

The 20 asa film is Rollei ATP2.1.

Which is made by Maco. It is a microfilm, originally formulated for copying.

Agfa Copex is relabelled as Rollei ATO2.1.

It doesn't help film users to reproduce unhelpful comments about companies who are trying to help us. Fotoimpex have brought back Agfa Multicontrast Classic VC FB paper as Adox MCC. They are about to bring out an _improved_ APX 400. But it, they're good. When all the other manufacturers are gone because their models did not take into account the shrinking market, if you want to shoot film and print on silver, they will be the last man standing.

I am developing a "film bank" of test results and am happy to share it. It's based on answers from manufacturers and analytical tests on the products. Perhaps we need a sticky "Rollei" films thread to add to the Arista one.

Marty

 

[Rhodes]

Sorry, It's ATP 2.1 or ATO 2.1? ANd this is similar to agfa copex?

 

[jpa66]

This looks like a job for Sherlock Holmes - "The Case of the Re-badged Agfa"!

 

[Pico]

It is old already? I have two cases in deep freeze!

--
Call me Rumplestiltskin (sp)

 

[Leigh Youdale]

Well, I thought I was being helpful by offering what I thought was useful information. It seems I was ever so badly mistaken even though some of the same information was supported from different sources. Seems everybody is wrong.

 

[Freakscene]

Apologies if I was too sharp; what you wrote about Adox might have been correct 3 years ago, but the situation has changed significantly since then. I have visited almost all the remaining film coating plants worldwide and really think that the Fotoimpex/Adox model is going to deliver film users products a long time after the mainstream companies cannot maintain their businesses. Users need to support these products.

Marty

 

[_mark__]

http://www.adox.de/english/