Turtle
Veteran
foma 100 is a good replacement for APX 100 in many regards.
Any film similar to the old Agfa emulsions?
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peter_n
Veteran
LOL. After all of the explanations, Turtle beat me to it. Fomapan 100 ($2.89/36exp) is the nearest thing I've seen to Agfapan 100 too. Freestyle's Arista EDU Ultra 100 ($2.09/36exp) is Fomapan 100 according to the "Mapping the Freestyle Discount Films" thread.
Freakscene
Obscure member
The new Rollei Retro 80s (relabelled Agfa Gevaert aerial film) is tonally fairly similar but is much more red sensitive. Retro 80s is really nice in Rodinal.
Marty
Marty
jpa66
Jan as in "Jan and Dean"
I agree 100%. I love the stuff. My only complaints are that I have to get it shipped to me, as no local store carries it, and it's a bit on the expensive side.
HHPhoto
Well-known
Hi,
they are not only supposed to be, they really are the original Agfa APX emulsions. From the last batches made in 2005 at the Agfa plant in Leverkusen, Germany.
AgfaPhoto APX from the company Lupus Imaging, Germany, is also old stock from Leverkusen. Lupus imaging is using the name AgfaPhoto under license from AgfaPhoto Holding, Germany. The AgfaPhoto Holding has nothing to do with Agfa-Gevaert in Belgium, who is producing huge amounts of film for movies, aerial photography, surveillance, graphic, medical purposes, micro film etc.
Cheers, Jan.
HHPhoto
Well-known
Hi Marty,
with some things you are right, but some are wrong.
That is wrong. The new Adox films and papers are made by InovisCoat ( www.inoviscoat.de ) for Adox. Both emulsion making and coating.
Cutting and packing is currently made by Filmotec, and it is planned to make cutting and packing of paper and films at Adox in Bad Saarow in the near future.
Mirko Böddekker from Fotoimpex / Adox has always said that in his own German forum.
On the Inoviscoat web page you will also find the information that the new Adox MCC and MCP is made by them for Adox.
InovisCoat is also involved in the new Impossible Project color film (official information from the IP newsletter).
It is right that they own some machinery, but Mirko has always said as long as it is possible emulsion making of MCC / MCP and APX based films will be made by InovisCoat. Because this solution is much, much more economical than doing it at Bad Saarow.
There could be one exception in the future: Adox has bought the emulsion making equipment from Forte for Polywarmtone. They want to try to do Polywarmtone again. But if they are succesfull, they will only make the emulsion, coating will be at InovisCoat. Adox definitely has no running coating machine in Bad Saarow at this time.
No, wrong. Rollei ATP is a technical pan film like Kodak Technical Pan. It is a different film typ, and the original purpose ist not copying nor using as a micro film. TP films like Kodak TP or ATP films are used for some movie film applications (e.g. sound recording).
That is also completely wrong. Agfa Copex Rapid has nothing to do with Rollei ATO film. Rollei ATO is an ortho film made by Fotokemika.
I've used both, I know the differences.
You can buy original Agfa Copex Rapid as 135 and 120.
And you can buy relabelled Agfa Copex Rapid as 135 and 120 under the SPUR brand (Spur DSX film). SPUR in Germany is making excellent developers for this film.
Cheers, Jan.
with some things you are right, but some are wrong.
That is wrong. The new Adox films and papers are made by InovisCoat ( www.inoviscoat.de ) for Adox. Both emulsion making and coating.
Cutting and packing is currently made by Filmotec, and it is planned to make cutting and packing of paper and films at Adox in Bad Saarow in the near future.
Mirko Böddekker from Fotoimpex / Adox has always said that in his own German forum.
On the Inoviscoat web page you will also find the information that the new Adox MCC and MCP is made by them for Adox.
InovisCoat is also involved in the new Impossible Project color film (official information from the IP newsletter).
It is right that they own some machinery, but Mirko has always said as long as it is possible emulsion making of MCC / MCP and APX based films will be made by InovisCoat. Because this solution is much, much more economical than doing it at Bad Saarow.
There could be one exception in the future: Adox has bought the emulsion making equipment from Forte for Polywarmtone. They want to try to do Polywarmtone again. But if they are succesfull, they will only make the emulsion, coating will be at InovisCoat. Adox definitely has no running coating machine in Bad Saarow at this time.
No, wrong. Rollei ATP is a technical pan film like Kodak Technical Pan. It is a different film typ, and the original purpose ist not copying nor using as a micro film. TP films like Kodak TP or ATP films are used for some movie film applications (e.g. sound recording).
That is also completely wrong. Agfa Copex Rapid has nothing to do with Rollei ATO film. Rollei ATO is an ortho film made by Fotokemika.
I've used both, I know the differences.
You can buy original Agfa Copex Rapid as 135 and 120.
And you can buy relabelled Agfa Copex Rapid as 135 and 120 under the SPUR brand (Spur DSX film). SPUR in Germany is making excellent developers for this film.
Cheers, Jan.
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Leigh Youdale
Well-known
This has more twists to the plot than a Stieg Larsson novel!
What with the info I had, which Freakscene said was wrong, and what Feakscene had which HHPhoto says is not correct there must be SOME bits that are accurate.
I'm starting to wonder if it matters anyway, as by the time it's proven things will probably have changed.
My concern was to establish which film I liked best to use and whether ownership and manufacturing would provide consistency of supply for the foreseeable future.
Maybe the answer is just to choose one that works for now, not worry about who owns what or who makes it, and if things change then make another selection. My head is starting to hurt!
What with the info I had, which Freakscene said was wrong, and what Feakscene had which HHPhoto says is not correct there must be SOME bits that are accurate.
I'm starting to wonder if it matters anyway, as by the time it's proven things will probably have changed.
My concern was to establish which film I liked best to use and whether ownership and manufacturing would provide consistency of supply for the foreseeable future.
Maybe the answer is just to choose one that works for now, not worry about who owns what or who makes it, and if things change then make another selection. My head is starting to hurt!
jpa66
Jan as in "Jan and Dean"
I'm beginning to think that I let out Pandora's Box when I started this thread 😱
Anyway, I basically agree - I just want to keep using APX - you can call it whatever you want!
My head's already hurting...
Freakscene
Obscure member
Hi jan,
thanks for your input.
Sorry if I was unclear. I know Inviscoat make the products for Fotoimpex/Adox, but these ones are not sold under any other name and they are made specifically for Fotoimpex/Adox, who commission their production. All i was trying to say is that Fotoimpex/Adox don't just relabel other products that are available under other names. I am visiting the InovisCoat plant later this year.
Absolutely, the planned Forte Polywarmtone replacement will be made at Bad Saarrow because the InvisCoat plant isn't set up to make that type of emulsion, because of certain physical aspects of the emulsion that require specific equipment. I saw these machines when they were in Vac, Hungary, and moving them must have been quite an adventure.
TechPan was also based on a copying film. I think we're talking at cross purposes here.
Then it has changed; the first sample rolls of ATO that I got were chemically identical to Copex. The biggest problem with trying to keep track of all of this is that the playing field keeps moving. I retain a film library and try to keep track of what is what, but I only test some films periodically because my use is small and if I buy 50 rolls, it might last a decade.
Back to the original poster - try Fomapan 100 or Rollei Retro 80s when the Rollei Retro 100 runs out.
Thanks,
Marty
thanks for your input.
Sorry if I was unclear. I know Inviscoat make the products for Fotoimpex/Adox, but these ones are not sold under any other name and they are made specifically for Fotoimpex/Adox, who commission their production. All i was trying to say is that Fotoimpex/Adox don't just relabel other products that are available under other names. I am visiting the InovisCoat plant later this year.
Absolutely, the planned Forte Polywarmtone replacement will be made at Bad Saarrow because the InvisCoat plant isn't set up to make that type of emulsion, because of certain physical aspects of the emulsion that require specific equipment. I saw these machines when they were in Vac, Hungary, and moving them must have been quite an adventure.
TechPan was also based on a copying film. I think we're talking at cross purposes here.
Then it has changed; the first sample rolls of ATO that I got were chemically identical to Copex. The biggest problem with trying to keep track of all of this is that the playing field keeps moving. I retain a film library and try to keep track of what is what, but I only test some films periodically because my use is small and if I buy 50 rolls, it might last a decade.
Back to the original poster - try Fomapan 100 or Rollei Retro 80s when the Rollei Retro 100 runs out.
Thanks,
Marty
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Rhodes
Time Lord
So, were I can find and buy agfa copex films or their equivallent?
Leigh Youdale
Well-known
http://www.macodirect.de/agfa-copex...ge=en&osCsid=b931d9a0740a1ff4c47acd891ac7a87e
But are you sure that's what you want? It's not supposed to be anything like APX.
Freakscene
Obscure member
One addendum. I haven't visited Agfa Gevaert, but I note that 'Copex" is a family of products; the sample rolls I received do not have any indication of which Copex they are, except that they are not the direct copy positive films.
http://www.agfa.com/en/sp/solutions/microfilm/copex/index.jsp
Something else to work through.
Marty
http://www.agfa.com/en/sp/solutions/microfilm/copex/index.jsp
Something else to work through.
Marty
HHPhoto
Well-known
Keep cool, there is no problem for you.
You want to continue using APX? Just do it! There is still enough Rollei Retro 100 around. And that's exactly original Agfa APX from the last coating runs in Leverkusen in 2005.
Same with AgfaPhoto APX 100 sold by Lupus Imaging.
APX 400: A slightly changed version, made by Inoviscoat for Lupus Imaging and for Adox, will hit the market in one month.
Then you can buy this film as AgfaPhoto APX 400 or later also as Adox AP 400 (The AgfaPhoto version will be the first on the market due to a statement from Mirko Böddekker).
Don't worry, be happy 😉.
Cheers,
Jan.
HHPhoto
Well-known
Hi Marty,
technical pan films like Kodak Technical Pan or Rollei ATP are originally not designed for copy work. They have a superpanchromatic sensitization with an extended red sensivity (one reason why these films are very popular in the astro photography scene).
Copy and micro films in most cases have an orthochromatic or orthopanchromatic sensitization. They are more blue and less red sensitive.
Agfa Copex Rapid is an orthopanchromatic film. Rollei ATO is an orthochromatic film.
Cheers,
Jan
akalai
Well-known
I still miss the minty freshness when licking the tape on 120 rolls of APX100... 😛
HHPhoto
Well-known
Hi Leigh,
or here (at even better prices):
www.generalphoto.de
That's right. Agfa Copex Rapid, develeoped in the dedicated Spur Modular UR developer has
- much, much higher resolution than APX 100
- much, much better sharpness
- significantly finer grain
- higher dynamic range (better highlight detail)
- a bit less speed (ISO 50)
Cheers,
Jan.
HHPhoto
Well-known
Hi Marty,
it is Agfa Copex Rapid, which is now sold as 135 and 120 film for pictorial photography.
Cheers, Jan.
_mark__
Well-known
Freakscene
Obscure member
Like I said, I need to check what Copex I have.
In terms of the relationship between copy films and technical films, the silver halides used are similar in both, but the technical films have organic sensitising agents that increase their spectral sensitivity. The chemical similarities between Tech Pan and Kodak High Contrast Copy Film (which was discontinued when Kodak introduced Tech Pan) are quite striking.
Marty
Rhodes
Time Lord
Yes, thank you! I had a few rolls of copex 25 (only info about it), they were given to me. Also, the rolls were load from a bulk so the correct name of the film I do not know. Possibly it's the copex rapid or the COPEX HDP. After developing the film does not have the mark and frame numbers. I liked the results so I wanted to get more.
And I well served of APX, have a bulk of apx 100!
PS: here my results of the copex
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89610
And I well served of APX, have a bulk of apx 100!
PS: here my results of the copex
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89610
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