Anyone in here give up on RF's?

Jim,

I have to say look into using a P&S approach for the family. I used a Bessa L with a CV 25/4 and brightline finder. DOF is a wonderful tool that helps. I've never liked AF because of speed. I'm not really doing RFs right now, I know I will go back as time goes on. I move between tools as find the need to and don't worry about what is right, it's the journey, learning and having fun.

B2
 
jmooney said:
I know this may seem blasphemous in light of the sign above the bar so to speak but since this is the corner where SLR users hang about I though I'd throw it out there.

Have you given up on RF's?
Click to expand...

Don't worry. I think we have a significant share of users here who primarily use SLRs nowadays but who still hang out at the rangefinder forum. Nobody gets kicked out, at least not for that. 😉

I had pretty much the same experience as you did. I found myself doing more and more portraits, yet couldn't get the hang of rangefinders for everything over 50mm. Nowadays I use rangefinder cameras pretty much only with ultrawideangles, and I rarely use the rangefinder itself because focusing is so non-critical with them. At the moment it's the first time in seven years that I'm in the field with no rangefinder camera (currently I have here a Leica R5 and a Sigma DP1 digital compact).

I guess in the end it boils down to using what works best for you, and nobody will find anything wrong with that.
 
my first 'real' camera as a young man was a rangefinder...i have traveled back and forth between them and pro slrs for many years...but i am primarily an urban oriented photographer and much prefer rangefinders for that.

right now i have only rangefinders and a small micro4thirds camera, the panasonic g1 with a 'normal' af lens on it and a macro lens with adapter to play mr. close-up.
it's an ideal kit for me.

i plan on sticking with the rf approach...unless i change what i photograph.
 
I moved away from my rangefinder set up because ultimately, I was getting more 'keepers' with my current combination of a TLR and a point-and-shoot. It was a beautifully compact and simple set up which was a delight to see, use and hold, but at the end of the day, it is the images that count.
 
Like you I have fast moving kids, 20 months and 7 years. Minimum focus matters a lot to me. The 0.7m focus is tolerable, just about, but an SLR 50mm lens going to 0.45m or closer really makes a difference.

I don't really buy the "Leica glass is king" stuff. I've had great results from a Contax Aria, and from a Canon F1NAE (my SLR of choice now). The F1 is great because it makes enough noise that they often look round to see what Daddy just did, and thus shot 2 has them actually looking at me 😀

I do still keep going back to the Leica though, although an M7 in my case. I'm happy with meterless RFs, but only really outdoors.
 
I sympathise with your challenge. I too have small kids, and using an RF is a bit of an ordeal at times. I do persevere however. When it comes to the kids I scale focus when there's enough light, meaning enough for an aperture of f4 or f5.6 (or more if possible). I then work at a set distance to the subjects, limited by the depth of field. The more dof you are able to set up, the more leeway you have. When light is not available I still scale focus, but this time flash assisted, apertures as before. I still miss some, and you don't always get those "the eye closest to you in absolute focus" moments, but I find it works better than trying to focus om moving subjects.

Should they sit still for a moment I focus normally 😉
 
Jim,

Sometimes it depends on what your expectation is.

I actually cherish most of the blurred, grainy laughs and smiles (mostly her feet when she moved too fast) of my daughter taken with my RFs, TLR, and yes, folders 🙂

Don't sweat it. If you think you get more "memorables" and "keepers" with your SLR, then forget RF.
 
Here's a different point of view:

I like cameras as objects and I really appreciate fine mechanical devices, Rangefinders or SLR's. So first I pick the camera I want to play with and then take the pictures that lend themselves to the camera at hand. Sometimes it is one of my M's, sometimes the R7, sometimes the F2AS or the Nikkormats. Same thing with the lens I grab that day from a modest arsenal. If I miss a shot, so what. I even have a few very nice old Voigtlanders - Vito B, Vito II, and Vitoret - that look and work like new and are great to play with. It's a hobby for me. I don't get paid for any of it, I only need to please myself, and if I get a good shot or two, I am a happy camper. I suffer no delusions of being an artist, and I am not trying to communicate a thing. Just having fun with cool gear. I'll never sell any of it and I will probably never acquire any more. Got enough to last the rest of my life.
 
I have one 3-year old and another one on the way. Used to have a Canon 5DMkII. I found myself machine-gun shooting and sorting through tens of photos of the same thing. It just lends itself to that and I hated it. I wanted to slow down. So, I sold the Canon and got an M9. I wanted to try film so I also got an M6. I must have taken the M9 about 4 or 5 times and the M6 countless of times. If I can only take one camera with me I always choose the M6.

My daughter hates getting her picture taken. Every time she sees me approaching with a camera she runs away. I do get enough keepers that I don't think I will ever get back to SLRs as my primary camera. I did practice a lot to get to where I'm at. Initially, focusing was frustrating for me, but it's second nature for me now.
 
I started a similar thread several months ago. I have son who is just over 3 yrs and a 10 month old daughter. I found it very frustrating that I couldn't get in as close as I'd like. Almost gave up on the RF idea.
When my son was born I had stacks of time so took thousands of RAW files on my D200 and then D3, had time to process them and get lots of prints. When our daughter came along...time you're joking. I'm importing files from August as I type this. In the mean time I've had back half a dozen rolls of Kodak E100G slide film.
That doesn't answer the question but its something to bear in mind for those expecting another.
I still have my FM3A and a 50mm & 135mm Nikkor and keep thinking about selling it but then as much as I have come to love my M6TTL if I sold it and that Leica glass, just think what I could by from Zeiss for the FM3A. The thought of getting in to 25cm on a wide Zeiss is really appealling, not the kids, too quick now but general stuff. Yet looking back through my negs and slides I never really got that close often. Maybe it's the thought that if I wanted that option its a non-starter. At least with my Nikon the choice is there. As for running two systems, forget it, it gets expensive running one properly.
My focusing is quick and accurate now, although no kids ever out smarted my beloved F5 sold to buy the M6TTL or out ran the D3.
I now have a 90mm Elmarit and it does let you 'get closer', but thats not the point is it. Anyway the point comes when the kids wont do as they're told to have their photo taken so forget close-up work. There has been many a time I've said (out of frustration) to my 3 yr old son "You're doing this on purpose to annoy me" - through gritted teeth. There maybe a solution - he loves to look through the finder and press the button on the M6TTL to take a picture of his little sister (I know its wasted as she is quick), he thinks its great and knows its a Leica so now instaed of saying 'Cheese' - horrible , he says "Leica" in response to "Whats Daddies camera?". The shutter is that instantaneous its almost a dead-cert.
OH yes, thats alot more keepers on my film as I don't shoot billions of the same only a split second apart.
Phew!

Steve.

PS. I LOVE the feel of the Leica when I use it and the FM3A just feels clunky and slow now (a swinging mirror can make the difference I've learnt).
 
There's nothing wrong with prferring slrs to rf's. I use both, though the rf has current ascendancy or what I'm doing - usually candid portraits indoors in lowish light. My dslr is too big and noisy to make that fun, though it's perfectly capable.

The OP sounds like he'd benefit from a dslr with fast af - they're perfect for the task at hand. Depending on budget a Canon 7D might fit the ill.

Mike
 
It's always helped me in family photo situations being able to see well outside of the framelines, as RFs allow.
But fast moving kids are difficult.
I wouldn't even think of using a big SLR in those situations. Too obtrusive.
Maybe a Ricoh P&S with snap mode is the way to go.
 
Regarding the OP: flash. I like this line of thought because it frees you from the tyranny of expensive glass and limited DOF, regardless of system. I'd experiment with a small hotshoe'd digital (G12 or LX5 or similar, assuming you don't have a DSLR lying around) running an off camera light, either optically triggered or via radio triggers. But then I'd move back to my film once I had confidence in my light setup. And I'd shoot an aperture priority body.

Here's another shooting family with his light dialed in: Furrukh Khan http://www.flickr.com/photos/furrukh/with/3672279576/
 
In terms of hitting focus and exposure then a Canikon semi-pro DSLR with a shoe-mount flash will deliver the highest percentage of technically good shots for young family documentation. Think of what most successful wedding photographers use -- an over-powering flash, a big viewfinder, a fast zoom.

But why do your family photos need to be so perfect?

Choose a camera that is a pleasure for you to use and carry.

Personally I really like using the lowly cheap Pany G1 w the small 20mm. It's not perfect -- it's too damn small and the knobs move too easily -- but thanks to the EVF, I don't need my reading glasses to adjust the damn thing. I process the noisy files to within an inch of their life in ACR and all is good.

I even do family photos, don't tell anyone though:

http://frankpetronio.blogspot.com/

I admit I love fondling Leicas. But I hate scanning and editing 35mm, and compared to the results I get from larger format film, I don't see the point of using 35mm. The best answer I've found is to buy an interesting old Leica, perhaps an old LTM w an Elmar, maybe even something broken. Put it on a shelf, next to the other brickabrack. Take it off the shelf and play with it when you feel in the mood. Shoot a roll of film if you feel wild and crazy. Put it back on the shelf.

Like an old bottle of scotch, military medals, your Father's 1966 Playboys, it's good to have a few mementos and you don't have to feel guilty about it.

A $300 beater Leica is probably a good investment if it keeps you from pissing big money on the fantasy of having an M-system that you don't need or even use effectively.
 
I too have young children, ages 7, 6 and 2.

When the first was born, I was shooting with Canon F-1N and A-1 bodies and a mess of fast primes. It was sometimes difficult for manual focus and metering to keep up with a baby, but overall it was great -- I did my own processing and darkroom printing, and I have boxes of nice 8x10 fiber prints.

When the second was born, the oldest was only 13 months. It was about year before, with much tearing of hair and rending of garments, I accepted the brutal reality that I wasn't going to have the time for film processing/printing for at least a decade. So I got a digital P&S, a Canon SD550, which possessed the critical attribute of having the quickest shutter response time of any camera in its class at the time that the salesman at B&H was willing to lay out on the counter in front of me. I spent 2 years in camera purgatory: Crappy viewfinder; AF lag that forced me to pre-focus most shots anyway; tiny, fiddly controls; chimping mode that left the camera unready to take the next shot. I was getting enough keepers, but I was beginning to lose my joy in photography.

Then, about 2-3 years ago, I finally decided to get a good DSLR and try to revive my spirit. I'd settled on a Canon 5D, but just before I pulled the trigger I learned of the existence of the Epson R-D1 -- and I took a leap of hope. This camera has been almost perfect for me: Big, bright 1:1 viewfinder; very fast shutter response; has that manual focus, that film camera feel that makes me smile (even has a film advance lever to cock the shutter, and you can flip the screen around to hide it if you don't chimp); Leica M mount lenses; 1.5x sensor crop factor, but that's OK for now. It turns out that 0.7m is usually close enough, and zone-focusing with a 28mm or 35mm lens is also usually good enough for moving targets. I get lots of keepers, and 6 megapixels turns out to be good enough for 8x10 prints. And the ISO 1600 performance in B&W mode produces a film-grain look like pushed Tri-X.

However, as the kids grow and become more active, I'm beginning to think that some quick AF might be the ticket to more keepers. I may yet buy a Canon 5D or 7D, or maybe a Panasonic GF1 so I can continue to use all my M and LTM lenses (and even revive my Canon FD lenses). But I think I'm going to wait for the Fujifilm X100 to come out next year, and see if that's the perfect marriage of AF and RF. I'd probably keep it as a second camera, to bring along when I'm not likely to have the time for MF, and continue to use the R-D1 for most of my pleasure shooting. Maybe you could do the same alongside your M6.

Bottom line is, you have to find the gear that both gives you the results you want and the pleasure in shooting you need. I felt sick giving up my beloved Canon FD gear and B&W film, but it had to be done and I'm better for the transition.

::Ari
 
Frank Petronio said:
In terms of hitting focus and exposure then a Canikon semi-pro DSLR with a shoe-mount flash will deliver the highest percentage of technically good shots for young family documentation. Think of what most successful wedding photographers use -- an over-powering flash, a big viewfinder, a fast zoom.

But why do your family photos need to be so perfect?

Choose a camera that is a pleasure for you to use and carry.

Personally I really like using the lowly cheap Pany G1 w the small 20mm. It's not perfect -- it's too damn small and the knobs move too easily -- but thanks to the EVF, I don't need my reading glasses to adjust the damn thing. I process the noisy files to within an inch of their life in ACR and all is good.

I even do family photos, don't tell anyone though:

http://frankpetronio.blogspot.com/

I admit I love fondling Leicas. But I hate scanning and editing 35mm, and compared to the results I get from larger format film, I don't see the point of using 35mm. The best answer I've found is to buy an interesting old Leica, perhaps an old LTM w an Elmar, maybe even something broken. Put it on a shelf, next to the other brickabrack. Take it off the shelf and play with it when you feel in the mood. Shoot a roll of film if you feel wild and crazy. Put it back on the shelf.

Like an old bottle of scotch, military medals, your Father's 1966 Playboys, it's good to have a few mementos and you don't have to feel guilty about it.

A $300 beater Leica is probably a good investment if it keeps you from pissing big money on the fantasy of having an M-system that you don't need or even use effectively.
Click to expand...

Hate scanning 35mm says the guy who just sold me an N80 😀


I've been down all of the roads you've laid out and am still on some of them.

I just unloaded the final Panny G1 that I had, I didn't like the noise level. I bought my wife a D5000 so we have a decent DSLR "in the family" but it's small and fiddly for my arthritic meathooks.

Beater Leica IIIa w/Collapsable Summar is on my desk at home as well. I think that it will serve the purpose you say in that I can still belong "to the club" and not have a ton of money tied up.

The money on the fantasy M has been pissed already, it's on my desk at home as well and it looks awesome but like I said above I don't know how long it'll be here. I love fondling them too but the images aren't proving out. Not too worried because I should be able to turn it around quickly.

I've thought of a TLR too but I'm back to the manual exposure, manual focus issues with that as well.

The only camera that's safe right now is my Linhof Kardan Color 45. LF has a defined place and doesn't enter into this discussion.

As far as the family photos being perfect, no they don't have to be but they've gotta be a more sure thing. My wife, being a scrapbooker and preserver of memories, is an unforgiving client/art director :angel:


I REALLY do appreciate all the advice and suggestions, I'm exploring all of them. I'm exploring several options right now:

-Digi P&S
-Leica CM
-Contax G
-DSLR

I'd look into a M8 but they are just crazy money....
 
I've fallen in and out various traps in the past, I've built up a classic Nikon F system and sold it, built up a Pentax M series SLR system and sold them, have been in and out of love with RF, and unfortunately I have collected and bought too much gear in the past as opposed to shooting images. As others have mentioned here I,m at that stage in my life where I know what I like to shoot and what is best to shoot it with. My kids are now 16 and 11 and don't move that fast, I tend to shoot them with a Pentax DSLR. Where I am at at th moment is that I'm obssesed with scale focus compacts, but I'm considering selling my Minox 35ML, Gl and Rollei 35S to fund a body for my Voigtlander 25/4 snapshot lens. I feel at prsent that my Planar 45/2 and my cv 25 are two lenses I could live with
 
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