Are Leica Black M4's (all versions) Chrome or Paint?

kshapero

kshapero

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Are Leica Black 4's (all versions) Chrome or Paint? My neighbor (under my influence) has a desire to get an M4 in black, but I don't know if they are black chrome or black paint?
 
Both black chrome and black paint M4 exist.
M4-2 are far more common in black chrome and I don't know if they were ever available in black paint.
M4-P are also more common in black chrome but I know that standard chrome were available. Black paint may have been an option, but again, not sure.

Phil Forrest
 
Like Phil said, the M4 is available in black paint and black chrome. I have a black paint version from the 1970s and it's beautiful. M4-2 and M4-P models were available in black chrome, but not black paint, as far as I know.
 
Both are available. Black Chrome M4's are easier to come by and less expensive than a Black Paint M4 although both are up there in price. Your neighbor has good taste, the black variant of the M4 are my favorite M's ever made.
 
Any Leica from the mid 1930s onward that is factory finished in black paint is more expensive to buy.
 
There are lots of stores dealing in used Leicas in the US. You might want to start by talking to David Farkas at the Leica Store in Miami. Then Tamarkin in Chicago, Camera West on the West Coast, Igor's Camera Exchange in Cleveland, Roberts Imaging in Indy, . . . High quality M4 cameras in any finish are in high demand.
 
M4 are black paint 1966-1972, then they stopped production for a period with the introduction of the M5....when re-introduced I believe they were all black chrome. Subsequent M4-2 and M4-P were all black chrome. The black paint over brass are more expensive on the used market.
In addition to ebay, some of the high end stores, like the Leica Store in Vienna, and lots of Leica specialty shops in Japan will have them.
 
kshapero said:
Thanks all. I'll share this with him. Then he is on his own. Any place besides eBay to find these?
Click to expand...
eBay would be the place with the most volume, but you might try your local camera store - if you have one.

A word about the "variants" -

There's a world of difference between the M4-2/P cameras and the original M4. Black paint M4 cameras were made sporadically in small batches early on, but the very last black M4 cameras were only done in black chrome (in fact these were the very first Leica M cameras to be offered in black chrome). Either way, a black M4 will cost you a premium as most were produced in silver chrome. There are a number of M4 cameras originally produced in silver chrome that were converted to black paint (look here).

As others have pointed out, all black M4-2/P cameras came out of the factory as black chrome (this is certainty). In fact, most of these cameras were produced in black chrome - very few were originally in silver chrome (these get the price premium on these variants).
 
Bill Blackwell said:
eBay would be the place with the most volume, but you might try your local camera store - if you have one.

A word about the "variants" -

There's a world of difference between the M4-2/P cameras and the original M4.

Black paint M4 cameras were made sporadically in small batches early on, but the very last black M4 cameras were only done in black chrome (in fact these were the very first Leica M cameras to be offered in black chrome). E.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Different features as well as different internal construction. The M4-2/P prices are far lower. The M4 more desirable.
 
No original black paint M4-2 or M4-P. A couple of years ago a black paint M4-2 top plate was for sale on Ebay based on a brass M4-2 spare top plate. Except for very early production series, Leica M4 "black paint" are not 100% black paint (shutter speed dial, round part of the rewind knob, and back door are black chrome, opening latch of the base plate, strap lugs are silver chrome). The very early Leica M4 (possible 1187xxx series) are true black paint with all parts in black paint and black painted brass strap lugs. Those are possible leftover parts from M2 production. The brass strap lugs are often worn out from stainless steel key rings and there are no spare parts anywhere available. Prices for black paint M4 have gone up 100% over the last 4.5 years. Black chrome M4 are cheaper and possibly more reliable (shutter curtains) because of later production. M4-2 (that have been serviced by a competent (!) technician) and M4-P are much better user cameras and cheaper.
 
In addition, if originality is not a concern, consider a repaint. Some are done quite well, I saw a NATO green M4 repaint done with 2 part epoxy baked and it looked nice. I was thinking about having it done to the most worn of my chrome M4's but that one is so worn that I think a repaint wouldn't show just how hard this M4 had been used. I don't mind the patina of actual use.
 
View Range said:
There are lots of stores dealing in used Leicas in the US. You might want to start by talking to David Farkas at the Leica Store in Miami. Then Tamarkin in Chicago, Camera West on the West Coast, Igor's Camera Exchange in Cleveland, Roberts Imaging in Indy, . . . High quality M4 cameras in any finish are in high demand.
Click to expand...
Must investigate this: I called Leica Miami and David Farkas is not there anymore.
 
maddoc said:
No original black paint M4-2 or M4-P. A couple of years ago a black paint M4-2 top plate was for sale on Ebay based on a brass M4-2 spare top plate. Except for very early production series, Leica M4 "black paint" are not 100% black paint (shutter speed dial, round part of the rewind knob, and back door are black chrome, opening latch of the base plate, strap lugs are silver chrome). The very early Leica M4 (possible 1187xxx series) are true black paint with all parts in black paint and black painted brass strap lugs. Those are possible leftover parts from M2 production. The brass strap lugs are often worn out from stainless steel key rings and there are no spare parts anywhere available. Prices for black paint M4 have gone up 100% over the last 4.5 years. Black chrome M4 are cheaper and possibly more reliable (shutter curtains) because of later production. M4-2 (that have been serviced by a competent (!) technician) and M4-P are much better user cameras and cheaper.
Click to expand...

Black painted brass rewind knobs were used into 1968. shutter speed dial is aluminum, backdoor is still paint. You're right about the paint/chrome price differential. That alone would more than cover a shutter curtain replacement. The black paint and black chrome M4 are quintessentially different, and the gap between the M4-2/P and the M4 is quite wide as well from both an aesthetic and construction point of view.
I believe a member here on the forum recently mentioned scoring a 50th anniversary M4 (1975) for $3k....lucky find. Pickings are slim on all fronts lately for anyone who is looking.
If i were to draw a line, the M4 is more like the M2 & M3, while in feel and construction, the M4-2/P are more like the M6. IMO The M4 is the last old school Leica

50287745287_ebb89e1123_c.jpg
Flickr
 
I purchased a mint black chrome 50th anniversary M4 in November, 2020, from Classic Connection for $3000. It was not cheap (about $1000 more then chrome body) but have your friend talk to Sam.

I see Tamarkin has two black chrome M4-P's listed for $2000.
 
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