Arrived today!

[douglasf13]

Actually that's not true.
Color cast are not result of AA filters. GXR and 5N all have micro lenses on edge of the sensor to capture light coming in at an angle. (GXR specially designed for M lenses )

All current DSLRs and mirrorless cameras (except for some MFDB) have microlenses. The "specially designed for M lenses" microlenses is mostly marketing speak. Did you know that, despite claiming to have special micro lenses to improve the corners, Leica's M9 still has a worse fill factor than a normal DSLR sensor? The removal of the AA filter, along with software corrections, are the main reasons why M lenses are usable on the M9. As the paper from Zeiss that I linked above mentions, the thickness of the filter pack in front of the sensor actually influences the resolution loss at the edges of the sensor, because the light has to bend through more layers. Remove the AA filter, and you shrink that filter pack considerably, so only the IR filter is left to cause issues.

 

[BMacW]

Did you know that, despite claiming to have special micro lenses to improve the corners, Leica's M9 still has a worse fill factor than a normal DSLR sensor? The removal of the AA filter, along with software corrections, are the main reasons why M lenses are usable on the M9.

M9 never had AA filter, even my M8 had none from the beginning. Which is why I don't think what you said in the previous post is NOT true.

 

[douglasf13]

Uh, that's my point. It's the lack of an AA filter, not special microlenses, that allows the M8 and M9 to perform well at the sensor edges. Did you read that 15 page Zeiss paper??

 

[BMacW]

Uh, that's my point. It's the lack of an AA filter, not special microlenses, that allows the M8 and M9 to perform well at the sensor edges. Did you read that 15 page Zeiss paper??

So if M9 never had AA filter how come it had color cast in the beginning??
It's just software lens profile with coded lens that fixed it for the M9, same thing can be done for Nex7 on a computer easily. BUT it has nothing to do with AA filter.

http://diglloyd.com/diglloyd/2009-11-blog.html#_20091119LeicaM9OffCenterColor

 

[douglasf13]

So if M9 never had AA filter how come it had color cast in the beginning??
It's just software lens profile with coded lens that fixed it for the M9, same thing can be done for Nex7 on a computer easily. BUT it has nothing to do with AA filter.

http://diglloyd.com/diglloyd/2009-11-blog.html#_20091119LeicaM9OffCenterColor

There are two issues that are a result from incident light rays at the edge of the sensor: color shift and detail smearing. Depending on the design of the sensor filter pack (IR filter or IR + AA filter) and the fill factor of the sensor at the edges, detail smearing and/or color shift may be present.

In the AA-less M9, there is color shift present, but it retains good detail with M lenses out to the sensor edges, and the color shift is an easy software fix.

Since the AA-less GXR module is a smaller sensor, it not only performs well, resolution wise with M lenses, but it also has less color shift, because the sensor is smaller than the M9's.

The Nex-5N and Nex-7 exhibit both color shift AND detail smearing at the edges, due to the fact that they have an AA filter in the way that causes astigmatism. However, the Nex-7 exhibits quite a bit more color shift and detail smearing than the Nex-5N, and it's likely due to variations in their filter pack, or it may just be a product of the smaller pixels of the Nex-7 not playing nicely with its filter pack.

At the end of the day, if you're planning on using M lenses wider than 35mm, as well as many 35mm M lenses, you're likely better off with the 5N, if detailed corners are desired in the first few aperture stops.

 

[Kent]

At the end of the day, if you're planning on using M lenses wider than 35mm, as well as many 35mm M lenses, you're likely better off with the 5N, if detailed corners are desired in the first few aperture stops.

I would reduce that to "wider than 28mm". 😉

 

[kanzlr]

I have not tried the 7 myself, but from what you read, it seems to be more "wider than 50"...

 

[kanzlr]

There are two issues that are a result from incident light rays at the edge of the sensor: color shift and detail smearing. Depending on the design of the sensor filter pack (IR filter or IR + AA filter) and the fill factor of the sensor at the edges, detail smearing and/or color shift may be present.

In the AA-less M9, there is color shift present, but it retains good detail with M lenses out to the sensor edges, and the color shift is an easy software fix.

Since the AA-less GXR module is a smaller sensor, it not only performs well, resolution wise with M lenses, but it also has less color shift, because the sensor is smaller than the M9's.

The Nex-5N and Nex-7 exhibit both color shift AND detail smearing at the edges, due to the fact that they have an AA filter in the way that causes astigmatism. However, the Nex-7 exhibits quite a bit more color shift and detail smearing than the Nex-5N, and it's likely due to variations in their filter pack, or it may just be a product of the smaller pixels of the Nex-7 not playing nicely with its filter pack.

At the end of the day, if you're planning on using M lenses wider than 35mm, as well as many 35mm M lenses, you're likely better off with the 5N, if detailed corners are desired in the first few aperture stops.

interestingly enough, even Sonys own 16mm seems to be better on the newer 16MP NEX than on the older 14MP ones which were also bad with wide M mount lenses:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110013

 

[douglasf13]

Yep, I've got the older 5, too. It's tough to say what kind of minor adjustments were made to the filter pack and sensor to cause the variance between the cameras. The C3 and 5N corner seems a happy accident, as Sony would have surely continued it through to the 7, if it was intentional.

 

[Kent]

I have not tried the 7 myself, but from what you read, it seems to be more "wider than 50"...

Nope. Trust me, I do have the NEX-7 and I have shot with a Summicron 35 without any problems.
With 28mm lenses it might depend on the lens model.
Only for anything wider than 28mm chances are high that you'll get that colour shift.

 

[kanzlr]

thanks for the info Kent.

thing is, 28mm is the tightest I can accept on an APS-C camera, rather longing for a 25mm 🙂
I know there is the AF Zeiss for that.

 

[douglasf13]

Nope. Trust me, I do have the NEX-7 and I have shot with a Summicron 35 without any problems.
With 28mm lenses it might depend on the lens model.
Only for anything wider than 28mm chances are high that you'll get that colour shift.

It depends on the 35 rangefinder lens that we're talking about. The ZM 35/2 has both color shift and detail smearing at the edges on the NEX-7, and it is better than the 4 other 35mm rangefinder lenses I've owned:

http://www.bmupix.com/journal/2012/1/7/nex-7-part-2-corner-performance-with-zeiss-biogon-t-35mm-f20.html

I've heard the CV 35/1.2 is fine, and maybe the Leicas. Interestingly enough, I was just looking at Bob's pics with the 35 Summicron ASPH on the NEX-7, and he definitely has color shift, but I can't judge detail in these pics:

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showpost.php?p=380455&postcount=233

Can you show us some corner crops at infinity, and also post some CornerFix-like shots with a white tissue over the lens? Thanks!