Artists don't care about equipment? Bulls--t!

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Leigh this part of my post was more tongue in cheak hence the sarcastic rolleyes.
One can talk for hours about the merits of a certain paper over another which would be analogue to talking about a certain films in the photographic realm.

Dominik
 
PS: The rise of the internet and heavy patronage of "forums" has contributed to this.

For example, there are hundreds of formerly barely known old lenses that used to be available for a pittance.

Someone finds a lens in a thrift store, takes a few pictures, discovers "lo and behold" that some piece of glass 50 years old can actually take a sharp picture, and he writes it up in wonder.

This impresses a few thousand dunderheads who know nothing about the history of photographic equipment, and everyone goes searching for one.

A few turn up in the attic, in poor deceased Dad's camera bag, or in another thrift shop, and the findee places it on eBay with a breathless description.

It sells for $500, and it's off to the races.

They find it miraculous that some long-dead optical designers actually knew what they were doing.
 
kyubophoto said:
Haha, I am currently finishing a fine arts degree as well.

However I don't often hear about the "artists dont care about equipment" deal though, School is full of people that obsess over paper, brushes, and various other tools like we do to our lenses.
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I would imagine that all of this talk about pencils and papers and brushes and such has to do with the feel and response of the materials. Correct me if I am off base, Chris, but it seems like the artist develops some sort of relationship and response with the materials used; and interaction that goes deeper than just putting an image on the medium.

But then you get folks like Jackson Pollock, who seem like they might be more detached from the tools and focused on the results, as in the case of Keith's reference.

I suppose it comes down to the ratio between the importance of journey and destination. I enjoy a blend of both most of the time. I enjoy using the cameras that I do, and I pay attention to the sound and feel and weight, all of the tactile delight that they bring to a situation. I also appreciate this obsession with equipment when things heat up and I am in a situation where the photo targets are rich and plentiful, but also fleeting. When something is unfolding before me that I want to record, I appreciate the "oneness" between me and my camera. The fact that everything is precisely at my fingertips and I don't have to think about what I need to do to get the results that I want, it just flows. That is where obsessing over my gear become a practical benefit.

The rest of the time it is just embarrassing.
;)
 
Leigh Youdale said:
I can only speak from recent and personal experience after resuming watercolour painting after a break of ten years.
Paper? Really only three grades and each performs differently but otherwise not much to worry about. Each manufacturer's product is pretty much the same as any other once it has paint on it.
Paints? One teacher says only use Artist grade, the other (a professional who earns his living from selling his art) says Student grade is good enough unless you're turning professional. Until then, don't worry.
Brushes? Both teachers use synthetic brushes or a mix of Squirrel and synthetic. I bought two very expensive pure Russian Sable brushes (the Leicas of the brush world) to try them out as "everyone" says they're the "best", but actually my Prolene synthetic brushes handle better for my taste and needs. Comparison? Try $20 compared to $94.

So although I'm seeing interest in having "good" tools and equipment I'm certainly not seeing "obsession" over them. By amateurs or professionals. And the "best" may not be the best after all - for my needs, anyway.
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DominikDUK said:
Leigh only three grades is an understatement there are a lot more. Different weight, different surfaces, differences in absorbtion rate, etc... wether its Chinese watercolour Paper,Nepalese Kalahari paper or Hahnemühle Aquarell etc... all these parameter play a role in defininig the end result. :rolleyes:

A lot of pro use cheap paint because its cheap and they use a lot of it.
A highly pigmented paint looks very different to paint with smaller amount of pigment not better just different and I would advise any beginner to use both for different effect.

But I agree obsession is maybe too hard a word in most cases. But denying the fact that people (any profession) are talking about the merits of certain tools over others is ludicrous.

Dominik
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Cool to see other painters here. I'm currently on hiatus from watercolor, though I did spend about three recent years completely obsessed with it. As a serial hobbyist, I obsess deeply about one hobby at a time, and my current horse is photography (which I've been on-and-off since I was about 13).

I thought of watercolor immediately, when I was first started reading this thread. And yes, people most certainly obsess about tools, paint, and paper. Go check out wetcanvas.com and see what I mean.

I do care about the tools of painting, as someone above said, because they respond the way I want and/or expect. As Dominik says, even within 140lb cold-press paper, I hate Canson and love Arches. Huge difference (to me). I find that sable, or squirrel/synthetic mix brushes are best (for me).

Others care, too. Check out handprint.com, where the site owner reviews many, many watercolor paint brands and describes, in incredible detail, his impression of their handling, good and bad (in his opinion).

I am a software developer. So is my wife. My computer and the software I install to get my work done are important to me. I can only stand to work on a Mac (or at least Unix). She doesn't really care. She just likes solving problems.

Anyway it's just a long way of saying that some people care a lot about equipment and some people don't, and it doesn't matter the area of interest, or the level of experience. It's impossible to make broad statements about it.

Fun to talk about, though :)
 
Chriscrawfordphoto said:
One of the silly lies that keeps cropping up on photo forums on the net is that 'real artists' (that is, everyone but photographers) don't care about equipment.
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Yes, lots of opinions are held as Truth, often by the opiners themselves. Things are easier when they're in neat little boxes. Reality is often more complicated than portrayed on the intertoobes.


And, btw, are the pencil prices driven by collectors? :D
 
Hatch said:
The geniuses I know, are obsessive.

So if you're not you're probably normal. ie mediocre.
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So you're saying that, since every genius YOU know is obsessive, EVERY genius must be obsessive?

Cool. You must know everyone in the world. What an accomplishment.
 
+1
Also, the best equipment is not necessarily the most expensive equipment, either.

Pablito said:
Well, one can have one's preferences, even strong preferences, but making the work is not about that. If you can't have your preference you work with what you have, what you can afford, etc. I don't know any artists or photographers who don't care about what they use to make work, but making the work is not about what equipment you might prefer.
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Just my opinion, but... No matter where you look, there are those that obsess about materials/gear and there are those that don't. Look at any interest, hobby, vocation, craft, art medium, career type (etc.) and you will find people on both sides, and some in the middle. It has more to do with the individual and not so much the particular practice they are engaged in.

Try asking some guitar players about how many coil wraps their P90s have or proper tube biasing or even what kind of pick they use. You'll either get a shrug or a dissertation. Ask a woodworker how to micro-bevel a bench chisel and some will first tell you how to properly forge and fold metal and go on and on about rockwell hardness and the merits of a socket over a tang. Same with some artists, same with some mechanics, same with some accountants, same with some soldiers, same with...

I know a painter that laboriously makes their own paint and brushes, yes they make their own brushes, and they would probably weave their own canvas if they could. I know a sculptor that makes sculpture out of dumpster trash and stuff you find at Home Depot. They both make things that are worth looking at.
 
I agree with Chris.
Artist or photographer. If "we" did not care about the gear the "Pro" or " Artist" equipment will not cost what it cost. Period.
If one does make good use of it or uses it the way it fulfills is own wishes, that's another story.
 
I think that it's funny that some people in this thread have confused students with artists.

If there's a trend emerging here, it appears to be that the students obsess over pencils, and the real-life artists don't. I wonder if you could sort them out that way in art school? It sure would save their parents a lot of money spent on expensive brushes if the obsessors could be immediately directed to some field they'd succeed in!

You see the same thing in my current field: violin "makers" who make maybe 5 violins a year, and spend the other half of their time building fancy cabinets for their shop, acquiring exotic tools, and promoting themselves in various ways. And then there are the people who actually supply players with violins, with 1000, 2000 instruments or more under their belt, working on benches made of plywood and 2x4s.

al1966 said:
Having been through similar establishments on the other side of the pond, I can only agree with Chris's observations. In two fine art departments there has been talk of brushes and far more particular than any of the photographers talk of cameras. Talking with some they will buy brand x over y for its shorter or softer or harder bristles. The adage of a poor work man blames his tools is a nonsense the good workman gets the right tool for the job. I have known students buy brushes that are £30+.
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mdarnton said:
I think that it's funny that some people in this thread have confused students with artists.

If there's a trend emerging here, it appears to be that the students obsess over pencils, and the real-life artists don't. I wonder if you could sort them out that way in art school? It sure would save their parents a lot of money spent on expensive brushes if the obsessors could be immediately directed to some field they'd succeed in!

You see the same thing in my current field: violin "makers" who make maybe 5 violins a year, and spend the other half of their time building fancy cabinets for their shop, acquiring exotic tools, and promoting themselves in various ways. And then there are the people who actually supply players with violins, with 1000, 2000 instruments or more under their belt, working on benches made of plywood and 2x4s.
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Then there are the fiddle makers who sneek out into the woods, looking for trees that have their special .. favorite sap, an ingredient for making "secret" varnish.
 
Hey, folks...
It is time for me to say something. I really appreciate Chris and to my knowledge, so do a lot of other members.

Chill out, please. The negative comments to Chris are rude and fighting and IMO totally unacceptable.
 
dave lackey said:
Hey, folks...
It is time for me to say something. I really appreciate Chris and to my knowledge, so do a lot of other members.

Chill out, please. The negative comments to Chris are rude and fighting and IMO totally unacceptable.
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Well Dave, I do have to observe that it is Chris that elects to post these provocative topics so really it is for him to defend his theses don't you think?
 
I totally disagree Stewart but I am not going to put you on the defensive. The forum rules do not allow for rude, harrassing, fighting or otherwise objectionable posts. Disagree all one wants but a few of the posts or over the top IMO.

If you disagree with me, simply say so, but respect of one another is preferable IMO.
 
dave lackey said:
I totally disagree Stewart but I am not going to put you on the defensive. The forum rules do not allow for rude, harrassing, fighting or otherwise objectionable posts. Disagree all one wants but a few of the posts or over the top IMO.

If you disagree with me, simply say so, but respect of one another is preferable IMO.
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The forum has many rules Dave, and I do question the aberrance of the original post to some of them. Having said that it is seldom a good idea to be provoked by such contentions
 
I just saw this thread, and it is remarkable to see the hatred that Chris's rather UNprovacative comment inspired. No statement you can make about anything or anyone is universally true in a world of 7 billion people, so why say anything at all?

I think you all need to hang out in bars more, and loudly tell everyone in sight that they don't know what the f-ck they are talking about. I would pay money to see it.

By the way, to those of you who sneer at Chris for his "fine arts degree" - my sense is that he doesn't come from money, and so maybe that degree was a real achievement in more ways than one. It certainly does not make him less of a real artist.

Randy
 
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