Auction site feedback - do you wait?

[lushd]

Must say I agree with Tom and Bill - the deal isn't over until both parties are satisfied so feedback should be left till then. Also - Ebay is a form of gambling and losing is part of it. I wouldn't bet what I couldn't afford to write off. But then I rarely buy anything that is worth more than £50 and I have never sold anything for more than £170. These are significant sums of money but I don't do much on Ebay and have only been done over twice in 80 + transactions over 4 years. If I was regularly selling and buying in the £1000+ arena I would be much more sensitive and irate when it went wrong.

Hey - I just noticed I got one of those little Leicas. Does this mean I'm a premium Dalek?

 

[hermie]

What happens if you receive nothing and the seller has proof he shipped? Are you happy then?

If you received nothing (and did not request insurance) you are happily going to leave positive feedback, right? Yeah that's what I thought.

According to eBay policy, the seller has met his responsibilities when he ships. It is up to the BUYER to get insurance if the BUYER wants it. Otherwise, the seller has done his part when he ships and has proof he shipped.

Anyone telling me they would not hold the seller responsible for non-delivery is pegging my BS meter. I would tell them sorry, I just don't believe you.

Tom, a "Dodgy" seller.

While I generally agree with you Tom, when I sell I insist on insurance. It is part of my S&H charge. I'm not interested in dealing with buyer grief if/when he claims he either didn't receive the item or it was damaged en route (or he smashed it because he just wants his $ back).

So my seller rules are very simple. I only take PayPal and all items are shipped insured.

I think this is fair and don't need or want buyers who disagree.

 

[T_om]

So, to the sellers who've posted and who withhold feedback until the buyer posts positive feedback, I ask you this: Why would you leave negative feedback for a seller who has a legitimate complaint? .

I wouldn't. I have not seen any sellers in this thread say they would either. Why do you assume this?

You also seem to assume every buyer is honest and trustworthy... I have some unfortunate news for you in that regard. I believe there are more dishonest buyers on eBay than sellers. WAY more.

Tom

 

[sf]

I don't give or expect feedback until the item has arrived at its destination and has been checked over, and the money in the bank. When both parties are happy with things, THEN we do feedback. That way, there are no "Whoops, I gave the buyer feedback for their purchase, but then something happened to kill the deal."

 

[T_om]

What happens if you receive nothing and the seller has proof he shipped? Are you happy then? If you received nothing (and did not request insurance) you are happily going to leave positive feedback, right? Yeah that's what I thought.

No and I must say that I really fail to see your point. If the seller has proof (as you say) that he shipped it then my issue is with the postal service or whatever deal I can make with the seller...

"...or whatever deal I can make with the seller...". Thanks for proving the point you failed to see. Why are you looking to make the seller cut you a "deal" after the fact?

It is buyers like you that make me happy with my choice of leaving feedback ONLY after the buyer leaves theirs.

Like I said, there are WAY more dishonest buyers than sellers on eBay. WAY more buyers want to do these dirty little scam "deals" because they know that 1. PayPal will almost always side with the buyer if they bitch about a sale and 2. Feedback is more important to sellers than buyers anyway.

A buyer with poor feedback only has to shut down his crappy account and open another one to be spotless again. Do a couple of stupid 99 cent throw-away transactions and bingo... you are a 100% positive feedback buyer again and can start working the scams all over against another batch of sellers.

A seller has a reputation to maintain.

Tom

 

[ch1]

"...or whatever deal I can make with the seller...". Thanks for proving the point you failed to see. Why are you looking to make the seller cut you a "deal" after the fact?

It is buyers like you that make me happy with my choice of leaving feedback ONLY after the buyer leaves theirs.

Like I said, there are WAY more dishonest buyers than sellers on eBay. WAY more buyers want to do these dirty little scam "deals" because they know that 1. PayPal will almost always side with the buyer if they bitch about a sale and 2. Feedback is more important to sellers than buyers anyway.

A buyer with poor feedback only has to shut down his crappy account and open another one to be spotless again. Do a couple of stupid 99 cent throw-away transactions and bingo... you are a 100% positive feedback buyer again and can start working the scams all over against another batch of sellers.

A seller has a reputation to maintain.

Tom

Tom,

I wholeheartedly agree with you. But I've been down this road here on RFF before.

Folks here seem to have a "Wal-Mart" kind of expectation wherein they buyer is always right and refunds are cheerfully made.

In fact, eBay has encouraged this by moving further and further away from being a true "caveat emptor" auction site. And hence, we now see, as you note, the preliferation of buyer scamsters - or buyers who don't feel compelled to complete a sale after they won the bid!

So set strict "buyer rules" like hermie above said and stick by them.

That's what I do!

 

[RicardoD]

You guys are freakin me out. I have sold 60 or so times on Ebay and never had any issues, thank goodness. Not run into any scammers and my only negative feedback was cause I forgot to seal up the box with tape one time and it got damaged a bit in shipment. Doh!

Now I feel I need to add a huge paragraph of fine print just to cover myself.

 

[aterlecki]

The whole feedback system is biased against the seller. Feedback ratings mean everything to a seller and are meaningless for a buyer. As a buyer I can examine the feedback of sellers and determine whether I do business with them. As a seller I have very few restrictions on who I allow to bid and I certainly will be unable to vet problem people and disallow them from bidding. Even buyers who have loads of negs can easily just create a new account to buy with and trash a seller's feedback, set up another account and do the same, ad inifinitum. Sellers need good feedback ratings to provide confidence to potential bidders. There is no equivalent for vetting buyers though - we simply have to hope for the best.

While I agree the buyer's part of the deal is done as soon as the payment is sent it is not done as far as feedback is concerned and as a seller I would never leave feedback until the buyer has first done so. This isn't because I am trying to hold anyone to ransom but simply because if anything happened after I sent the item out then how the buyer behaves in the post-shipping part of the transaction is something that needs to be accommodated for in feedback. If the goods arrived damaged and I offerred a full refund including return shipping once I had received the damaged goods back, but then the buyer refused to return the goods and demanded a refund anyway, I would feel justified in leaving appropriate feedback concerning this. I couldn't do this if I had left feedback immediately on receiving payment from the buyer.

I get the odd complaint from buyers that they won't leave feedback until I do. I tell them that's fine and that no feedback will therefore be left for that transaction. I then also go on to explain why I wait until feedback is first left for me (as I've described above) and almost always they relent and leave me feedback. Immediately I return the consideration.

 

[bob cole]

Based on all the postings, this feedback issue is --obviously-- a very touchy subject....Most sellers wait until they get good feedback before giving good feedback...Many actually say so in their listings...I always give good feedback upon payment or, when buying, on delivery of my purchase...On one occasion, when a dealer sent me a lens he thought was German but was actually Russian, we worked it out privately and I got my money back, less postage...On a few cases of dissatisfaction from buyers, I always return the full amount, including postage...life is too short to fight... I got one negative feedback because the buyer rushed to give feedback; if he had complained to me, i would have given him his money back...regards, bob

 

[Rich Silfver]

Like I said, there are WAY more dishonest buyers than sellers on eBay.

I'd love to see the supporting statistics.

 

[bmattock]

I'd love to see the supporting statistics.

Rich, I don't have any supporting evidence to give you, but I understand what Tom is saying, I think.

Even here on RFF, where I feel comfortable doing business with anyone and find the trust to be well-placed, we have had threads that got long and contentious and ended with many decent and upstanding RFF'ers making statements to the effect that as buyers, a transaction is not over until they are satisfied - that they decide what 'acceptable' is, and that demanding an adjustment to the sale price is not only legitimate, but preferable to returning gear they bought and found less than acceptable.

Since one can only theorize as to the legitimate beliefs of the buyers who make such statements. Are they in fact being cheated by sellers, or are they 'negotiating' after the fact as their modus operandi?

I can understand why sellers who see this over and over again begin to believe that there are a lot of dishonest buyers out there. Oh, the buyers may believe that they are perfectly honest.

Where does one draw the line?

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[T_om]

I'd love to see the supporting statistics.

Nope. Answer my question first. Why was your immediate response to "item never arriving" even after proof of shipment to make the seller "cut you a deal"?

That is the response of a dishonest buyer, not a dishonest seller.

Tom

 

[Rich Silfver]

Nope. Answer my question first. Why was your immediate response to "item never arriving" even after proof of shipment to make the seller "cut you a deal"?

That is the response of a dishonest buyer, not a dishonest seller.

Tom

Tom,
not sure I ever used the statement "cut you a deal". You may want to be more careful about quotes you make. Geez, the 'deal' in question was in line with selling me another one - which is EXACTLY what happened a few months ago when I bought a filter and it went missing in the mail and the seller sold me another one.

Always thinking there are some hidden agendas is a real bad habit Tom.
Then again, 'know others through yourself' I guess......

So..I'm waiting for the statistics now.

 

[T_om]

I apologize for the inaccurate quote. It was "my issue is with the postal service or whatever deal I can make with the seller"...

How's that?

Tom