Baking Lacquer-Old School Paint!

[Stu W]

I think I've found the solution to the durable paint problem. This stuff does not come off.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/productdetail.aspx?p=1143

 

[Beemermark]

Well theorectically it doesn't. I refinished a pistol with it, followed the directions to a tee (the wife didn't appreciated me using the oven) and it came off.

However, there are a lot of new coatings out there for pistols, ROBAR, DURACOAT, etc that when applied professionally stand up to an incredible amount of abuse. I've been wondering if I could get a gun smith to coat my M4. Some (if not all) are not do not require a high temperature either.

 

[splitimageview]

It comes off and don't bother with the aerosol, I've sent back perhaps 5 or 6 cans (out of 10 or so purchased) because they don't work...nothing comes out (or, sometimes it propels a silly string-like semi-solid paint.) In fact, I'm sending two cans back today, neither worked.

 

[sanmich]

Stu,

I was just looking for a solution for a repaint of my M2 (It is in a paint stripper foam bath right now...).
It seems though that as Mark pointed, the promessed result is theoretical.
From what I can understand from Brownwell videos, the metal needs to be professionslly sand blasted and cleaned to take the coats as it should.

I also had concerned about the need for baking the thing fearing both for the Leica covers and for the family health.

Now on the other hand, They have this:
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=1117&title=ALUMA-HYDE~+II

And they specifically mention in one of their videos that this paint is specially for people who don't have access to pro blasting, requiring only regular sanding.

 

[LeicaTom]

Well,

That stinks, I once saw a 47' IIIC painted with this stuff like 2 years ago and it looked great, too bad the paints given so many people problems.

That Park Grey looked pretty good too, it`s not RLM Grey, but it`s a close one, I still think there`s some military surplus paint out there somewhere? ~ Maybe we`ll find some can dated 1942? lol!!!!!!

Tom

 

[LeicaTom]

Now on the other hand, They have this:
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=1117&title=ALUMA-HYDE%7e+II

I THINK this was the stuff that I saw that guy paint the 47 IIIC with.......b/c I REMEMBER talking about that Parkerizing Grey paint ~ hmmm maybe this is a better grade paint b/c that 47`s finish was bullet-proof, I think it had to bake for like 2 days though????????

Just my take of Leitz paint`s and in getting it right.......

Hummm getting the early paint`s right are very difficult, Leica I, II & III.

I read about how time consuming George Carr`s paint jobs were in the 1960`s and 70`s *sometime`s hundreds of hours invested* and that LEITZ museum said that the quality of his work ~ *including the woods-metal engravers fillings* was as good or even surpassed the early 1930`s craftsmanship of the factory.

Now WW2 Grey paint that`s a different story, the WW2 RLM Grey paint was`nt really pretty, it was done out of pure necessity, and it turned out a simple semi-matt finish, the trick is getting the color shade correct, and George even had trouble with that, due to the paint changing colors AFTER the baking!

He stopped doing WW2 Grey camera restorations, due to this problem and said he`d resume doing them after the paint problem was sorted out......

I never found out if he ever got it right, if he did, he took it to the gave with him.....

I guess the late 1950`s early 1960`s Leitz Black Paint, is somewhere in-between this two paint styles, very smooth and somewhat glossy, but not very durable, at least not as resistant as the late 1960`s Canon paint......

Tom

 

[splitimageview]

Bead blasting is the only way to go, it's nearly impossible to get sandpaper in some of the nooks and crannies to remove the leftover residue from the plating removal.

 

[aizan]

if only shintaro would reveal his secrets to us...

 

[sanmich]

It comes off and don't bother with the aerosol, I've sent back perhaps 5 or 6 cans (out of 10 or so purchased) because they don't work...nothing comes out (or, sometimes it propels a silly string-like semi-solid paint.) In fact, I'm sending two cans back today, neither worked.

In their page they do say that "this stuff is unbelievable..."😀

 

[Never Satisfied]

Painting brass is always an issue. When I worked in a panel shop years ago we used a phosphoring solution that etched the brass to assist in paint adhesion. The trade name in Australia was deoxadine and was mainly used for removing suface rust from ferros metals prior to paining. I have also has success with white vinegar prior to paint. Brass has a waxy surface and very little will adhere to it. Visit an automotive paint supplier and ask about paint with an etching component. Aerosol cans regardless of the type are not suitable for the process because of the volume and viscosity of the paint. It will fill fine details like serial numbers. My advise would be to use a 2 part paint with an air brush or similar and very thin multipul coats.

Andrew.

 

[sanmich]

Bead blasting is the only way to go, it's nearly impossible to get sandpaper in some of the nooks and crannies to remove the leftover residue from the plating removal.

How much would cost bead blasting?

Today I called one of the two powder coaters of the area asking for a price, and got a ridiculous answer...

 

[LeicaTom]

More about painting........The Different Leica Paint`s.

Ohh I`m advocate for Camera Restoration and also Camera Modification/Painting, if you have a camera you want to USE and it`s collectable, a restoration`s not a bad idea, if it`s done to preserve the originally of the camera, CLA`s and also original vulcanite repairs etc. ~

My 1943 Leica IIIC K is 98/99% near mint on the top plate, but it has a really bad looking original base plate, which the original owner tried to repaint in the 1950`s it just looks awful, I just purchased a 30 year old + restored base plate from England and even though it`s not 100% perfect semi-gloss the paint`s really close it just really improved the look of my camera, so it was a good idea 😀

BEFORE WITH ORIGINAL PATINA'D AND POORLY REPAINTED BASE PLATE


AFTER WITH REPLACEMENT BASE PLATE



Ok it`s a "vanity" thing, but It`s just like restoring a rare vintage car, done right and with correct parts it`s looks really nice, and you want to take it out drive it and show it off to friends........ I bought that new repainted base to make the camera look nicer, the old base I`ll always keep, but the camera just looks so much more photogenic now....... 😉

Painting the cameras back to their original schemes, well this is where it get`s tricky, while it`s possible to do a perfect restoration of the original 1920`s and 30`s Leitz paint, it`s very time consuming, the cameras just haven`t reached that point that restoring them to mint condition only benefits a handful of really rare cameras, and since these sell regardless of the condition, painting them as good as George Carr did in the 1960`s and 70`s just does`nt come at a affordable rate.

The WW2 era cameras, no one so far has gotten it right with restoring these, I did see a 43 ' late last year that someone painted and it was dead-on the work was old so it may have been a Carr restoration from 30+ years ago.
*One day I plan on restoring a K camera, I want a 100% brand new Leica IIIC K Grey! So I can use it as I do my Conversion IIICK/IIIF everyday and not have to worry about the paint or the vulcanite ~ as soon as I can find a very very poor condition one, I will take it all the way down and bring it back up, it will not be cheap, but I want to show people that it can be done, this is my long-term future project ~ if anyone can help me locate a real beat up Leica IIIC Grey that would be greatly appreciated.*

The M Leica paintjobs, well there`s that one Japanese guy who was doing great work, Shintaro? (or something like that sorry) but I guess his rotation rate and time involved make it a crazy long nervous wait, CRR that company in England do nice work and there`s been another American painter who`s work looks very nice, just getting it dead on as in the old days just does`nt seem to happen.....the paint`s never smooth enough, that glassy/semi-gloss-gloss paint seems almost impossible to duplicate.

It`s really all about the paint.......

The old lacquers and paints now are so dangerous to spray and also I guess are hard to come by, I`m sure vintage 1930`s and 40`s car restoration guys have the answer, but like I said it`s really time consuming for a factory style paintjob.

Well, with enough said, I think that if you want to paint your camera to suit you, then that`s great and people should`nt look down on you for doing it, it`s your camera, you should work it, fix it and love it....if it`s Chrome and you want it Black, PAINT IT!!!! 😀

Just be aware that it`s a pain in the a** to get it looking like a factory job and that you have to settle for a little something less than perfect sometimes.

Tom

 

[sanmich]

Tom

I doubt my M2 will ever look like when it left factory:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64843

😀😉

I am not really in the restauration business.
Just turning an M2 that I love, but looks really worn into a nice looking camera.
I'm also taking shortcuts, as I'm not trying to do the small bits; only the top cover and baseplate.

That being said, your reference to that epoxy paint really increases the temptation to try it.
There is one problem though and I am just discovering it right now:

If you want to do a paint job, better do it really great, or really poorly.
Because, in between, you're gonna curse all the way to the tiny paint and primer spots that didn't read the stripper instructions and sticks to the body.

Would someone know if the epoxy paint is easily stripped in case of a mess?

 

[LeicaTom]

Tom

I doubt my M2 will ever look like when it left factory:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64843

😀😉

I am not really in the restauration business.
Just turning an M2 that I love, but looks really worn into a nice looking camera.
I'm also taking shortcuts, as I'm not trying to do the small bits; only the top cover and baseplate.

That being said, your reference to that epoxy paint really increases the temptation to try it.
There is one problem though and I am just discovering it right now:

If you want to do a paint job, better do it really great, or really poorly.
Because, in between, you're gonna curse all the way to the tiny paint and primer spots that didn't read the stripper instructions and sticks to the body.

Would someone know if the epoxy paint is easily stripped in case of a mess?

Ohh very kool 😀 ~ It`s a "vanity" thing, I really dig, Black paint M camera`s, I still might do a Black paint M3/6 one day? ~ I`m just about $2,000 short of project money now LOL!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, I say take the EXTRA effort, you love the camera and you plan on using it for years to come, so take your time with it and do like you do ask questions 🙂 - I also think it`s trial and error with these paint jobs, I think the more time you invest and with patience you`ll have a really good paintjob 🙂

Tom

 

[Nando]

Tom,

I wanted to do a reverse-Panda job on my M3 but I'm too chicken to attempt it myself. I just love that look. The M3 is in Robert's and Youxin's hands as we speak! 😀

Andrew,
It is your old M3 DS (Mr. White). I'm finally going through with it. 🙂