Bali Nine

kuuan

kuuan

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may long live Mary Jane Veloso. in memoriam Andrew Chan, Myuran Sukumaran, Rodrigo Gularte, Martin Anderson, Raheem Agbaje Salami, Silvester Obiekwe Nwolise, Okwuduli Oyatanze, Zainal Abidin yesterday killed by firing squad


Bali Nine by kuuan, on Flickr
 
Senseless defiance of what is right. I do miss the former Indonesian President, an admirable leader. I look forward to the departure of the current one.
 
thank you for your replies. It certainly was a sad day.

I note that at least 2 out of three of you, I don't know where Richard is from, are Australians. I just overread a Wiki article about an Australian citizen that was executed for a drug offence in Singapore in 2005: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Tuong_Nguyen
There it says that a poll taken only two days after his execution found that 52% of Australians approved of it, compared with 44% that were against it.
How would you say has Australian public opinion changed since then? This time public opinion, at least as published by media, seems to be mostly against. I read that official Australia however had pressed for the execution of the responsible for the Bali bombing, certainly a very different crime, but nevertheless.

Singapore is changing. Statistics says that between 1994 and 1999 it was the country with the second highest per-capita execution rate in the world. A quote: "The chief executioner, Darshan Singh, said that he has executed more than 850 people during his service from 1959 using the phrase: "I am going to send you to a better place than this. God bless you." This included 18 people on one day, using three ropes at a time. Singh also said that he has hanged 7 people within 90 minutes" taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Singapore
Capital punishment was halted and put on review in 2011, but in 2014 there had been 2 drug related executions.

Indonesia is different. It is common public knowledge that it is the military, 'respected' officials on public payroll, that control, besides other illegal trades such as illegal logging, mining and wildlife trafficking, the drug trade. A quote: "The dramatic court showcases of Western tourists smuggling drugs aside, examples of military and law enforcement complicity in drug trafficking abound. Rather laughably, officials at one of Indonesia’s high-security prisons, for example, have been caught cooking meth and supplying both the prison and the nearby city" from: http://www.brookings.edu/research/reports/2013/02/06-indonesia-drugs-felbabbrown

The "Bali Nine" were caught to smuggle drugs out of Indonesia. I have not found anyone raising the question where they had obtained their drugs from.
 
kuuan said:
thank you for your replies.
I note that at least 2 out of three of you, I don't know where Richard is from, are Australians. I just overread a Wiki article about an Australian citizen that was executed for a drug offence in Singapore in 2005: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Tuong_Nguyen
There it says that a poll taken only two days after his execution found that 52% of Australians approved of it, compared with 44% that were against it.
How would you say has Australian public opinion changed since then? This time public opinion, at least as published by media, seems to be mostly against. I read that official Australia however had pressed for the execution of the responsible for the Bali bombing, certainly a very different crime, but nevertheless.

The "Bali Nine" were caught to smuggle drugs out of Indonesia. I have not found anyone raising the question where they had obtained their drugs from.
Click to expand...

I don't think it has.
At the time of conviction, most Australians were in favour of their execution. However, there has been a big campaign (by their lawyers or family?) to get to know them. They became humanised in ways that Van Tuong Nguyen never was. Most would not know who he was (myself inluded).

Personally, I think Australia should has spent the energy elsewhere*, like in protecting the 2 Australian women who are killed by their partners every week. Unlike those executed recently, these women were not convicted of any crimes, yet they receive almost no media or government attention.

I also find it remarkable that Australia(ns) is(are) so up in arms by this, yet nothing is said publically about China (who executed ~2000 people last year), or the USA (who executed ~40). Are we saying that 1 Australian life is worth more than 1000 Chinese or 20 Americans? That is absurd.

So in the end I don't think that in general the view of the Australian people has changed, just in this specific case. Sad.

I believe they were smuggling ~7kg of heroin out of Indonesia.

*I don't think anyone deserves the death penalty under any circumstances, but I do think that a country needs to prioritise its efforts. I believe there are people everyday who were and are more deserving of efforts than those convicted of smuggling drugs in a country that has the death penalty for such a crime.
 
michaelwj said:
I don't think it has.
At the time of conviction, most Australians were in favour of their execution. However, there has been a big campaign (by their lawyers or family?) to get to know them. They became humanised in ways that Van Tuong Nguyen never was. Most would not know who he was (myself inluded).

Personally, I think Australia should has spent the energy elsewhere*, like in protecting the 2 Australian women who are killed by their partners every week. Unlike those executed recently, these women were not convicted of any crimes, yet they receive almost no media or government attention.

I also find it remarkable that Australia(ns) is(are) so up in arms by this, yet nothing is said publically about China (who executed ~2000 people last year), or the USA (who executed ~40). Are we saying that 1 Australian life is worth more than 1000 Chinese or 20 Americans? That is absurd.

So in the end I don't think that in general the view of the Australian people has changed, just in this specific case. Sad.

I believe they were smuggling ~7kg of heroin out of Indonesia.

*I don't think anyone deserves the death penalty under any circumstances, but I do think that a country needs to prioritise its efforts. I believe there are people everyday who were and are more deserving of efforts than those convicted of smuggling drugs in a country that has the death penalty for such a crime.
Click to expand...

I have conducted a straw poll of my acquaintances who a reasonably diverse group in terms of politics but mostly centre of the road and swinging voters. Most of them are inclined to shrug their shoulders and say something to the effect that what else is to be expected - these people went to Indonesia, a country that they knew applied the death penalty to drug offences then committed a drug offence. And not any drug offence - a major, major, major one. The view is that whilst they prefer there were not executed, never the less it is their own fault and as a sovereign nation Indonesia is entitled to apply its own laws as it sees fit.

I do not believe that anything has changed since the last exectution of an Australian drug smuggler by an Asian country except perhaps one thing. In Australia the dominant new broadcaster is now the public broadcaster, the ABC which routinely runs pro Green/Left campaigns to the ongoing adoration of the inner city latte set.

A wide range of the people in the rest of Australia have given up on the ABC as a serious news broadcaster and regard it as a sad sick joke. Unfortunately its a very vocal and loud sad sick joke one which even a conservative government will not confront. And so loud that this conservative government often caves in an toes the leftist line to avoid trouble.

The Abbott government's initial approach until perhaps 6 months ago was a low key one not far removed from the general approach of the wider Australian population I described above. But more recently under public pressure it has been much more vocal in its criticism of Indonesia. While the commentariat has claimed that Pressident Widodo is a weak leader trying to be strong but in all seriousness I actually believe that the same might be said of Abbott. Make no mistake, there is an element of racism on the part of the Left on this matter which has said things they would not accept if said about anyone else.

In the meantime, a wide cross section of opinion in Indonesia and I suspect Australia have the view that this was an act led and perpetrated by a couple of young thugs who took a gamble and lost and who are now doomed to pay the price of their folly.

Speaking personally I feel far more for their families and also for the people who would have suffered had their plan to sell over 6 kilos of the worst kind of hard drugs on the streets of Australia, come off. Perhaps it would be nice to stop some of the hand wringing and spare a thought for them.
 
michaelwj said:
I don't think it has.
At the time of conviction, most Australians were in favour of their execution. However, there has been a big campaign (by their lawyers or family?) to get to know them. They became humanised in ways that Van Tuong Nguyen never was. Most would not know who he was (myself inluded).

Personally, I think Australia should has spent the energy elsewhere*, like in protecting the 2 Australian women who are killed by their partners every week. Unlike those executed recently, these women were not convicted of any crimes, yet they receive almost no media or government attention.

I also find it remarkable that Australia(ns) is(are) so up in arms by this, yet nothing is said publically about China (who executed ~2000 people last year), or the USA (who executed ~40). Are we saying that 1 Australian life is worth more than 1000 Chinese or 20 Americans? That is absurd.

So in the end I don't think that in general the view of the Australian people has changed, just in this specific case. Sad.

I believe they were smuggling ~7kg of heroin out of Indonesia.

*I don't think anyone deserves the death penalty under any circumstances, but I do think that a country needs to prioritise its efforts. I believe there are people everyday who were and are more deserving of efforts than those convicted of smuggling drugs in a country that has the death penalty for such a crime.
Click to expand...

I agree with all you wrote, specially that these 8 executions are nothing compared with atrocities committed by other governments or to the shocking killing of partners in Australia, also the apparent absurd different value of life depending on nationality or even color within a society. The question if a modern society still should pursue capital punishment or leave it behind however is of great historic importance.
I think there is a difference between countries where it's population don't have a say like China and countries where it does, like the US.
Very conservative estimates, based on thorough scientific research, say that at least 4.1% convicted to death in the USA are innocent and that since 1973 the state would have killed 340 innocent people. It could happen to anyone. Approval rate has gone down to historic lows but still stay at 56%: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/category/categories/resources/public-opinion

@ Peter M: I believe most of your analysis concerning public opinion. And yes they knew that they were facing the death penalty if caught. But that doesn't make it right and they did it regardless, it only shows how ineffective the threat of it is.
You make it sound as if the issue of approval of or opposition to capital punishment was a question of 'leftist' propaganda as opposed to views of sensible Australians. I consider this reduction of the issue bordering to the cynical at best. In the linked statistics above one can see that in the US conservative Republicans are among those whose approval of the capital punishment has been dropping most. The EU, whose parliament is dominated by conservative forces, consider capital punishment as "cruel and inhuman, and has not been shown in any way to act as a deterrent to crime. It regards abolition as essential for the protection of human dignity, as well as for the progressive development of human rights.": http://eeas.europa.eu/human_rights/adp/index_en.htm
Your plea to shift to view the consumers and their suffering is important, but this capture won't have effected the availability of drugs in Australia at the slightest. The problem will be much easier to tackle if consumers wouldn't be pushed into illegality and supply left to be done by criminals with all it's related and subsequent problems for the individual and the society at large.
 
kuuan said:
I agree with all you wrote, specially that these 8 executions are nothing compared with atrocities committed by other governments or to the shocking killing of partners in Australia, also the apparent absurd different value of life depending on nationality or even color within a society. The question if a modern society still should pursue capital punishment or leave it behind however is of great historic importance.
I think there is a difference between countries where it's population don't have a say like China and countries where it does, like the US.
Very conservative estimates, based on thorough scientific research, say that at least 4.1% convicted to death in the USA are innocent and that since 1973 the state would have killed 340 innocent people. It could happen to anyone. Approval rate has gone down to historic lows but still stay at 56%: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/category/categories/resources/public-opinion

@ Peter M: I believe most of your analysis concerning public opinion. But you also make the issue of approval of or opposition to capital punishment as is it was a question of 'leftist' propaganda as opposed to sensible Australians. I consider this reduction of the issue bordering to the cynical at best. In the linked statistics above one can see that in the US conservative Republicans are among those whose approval of the capital punishment has been dropping most. The EU, whose parliament is dominated by conservative forces, consider capital punishment as "cruel and inhuman, and has not been shown in any way to act as a deterrent to crime. It regards abolition as essential for the protection of human dignity, as well as for the progressive development of human rights.": http://eeas.europa.eu/human_rights/adp/index_en.htm
Your plea to shift to view the consumers and their suffering is important, but this capture won't have effected the availability of drugs in Australia at the slightest. The problem will be much easier to tackle if consumers wouldn't be pushed into illegality and supply left to be done by criminals with all it's related and subsequent problems for the individual and the society at large.
Click to expand...

Kuuan. I agree that the issue of capital punishment transcends political boundaries. There are also many on the right who are opposed to it. And also some who think that it should be rarely used but still "on the table" in exceptional circumstances. I would hazard a guess that there are precious few holding that latter view on the Left.

But the point I am really making is that the most vocal and anti Indonesian voices I am hearing at the moment are those from the Left. The voices from the Right are somewhat more muted and I would say somewhat more balanced for the most part. But the Left with the ABC as its mouthpiece has the running on this constantly beating up the story by blaming Indonesia for applying the death penalty and the Australian government for not doing more (although what it could have done short of sending in a gunship (shades of Rudyard Kipling) is always unstated).

I think what galls me most is the double standard that applies in cases such as this. When someone or a group is seen by the Left as somehow "special" (one of their "sainted minorities") there is no end of invective they will not apply in their favour no matter how horrible their deeds. For some reason, Chan and Sukumaran seem to have been so anointed so their deeds are overlooked. They are just viewed as two unfortunates, tempted to break the law - rather than people who chose to do so as it was seen as being profitable and they were greedy.

But when for example an islamist murderer recently took hostages in Martin Place, some of whom were eventually killed, Australia's vocal Left mainly just ran a campaign about not blaming Muslims for the lone act of a single killer. It might be overstating it to say that hardly a word of condemnation of the the perp was spoken by members of that group. But certainly there was no condemnation of the vile ideology that cased him to act. This kind of hypocisy gets my dander up.

Seems that the innocent civilians murdered by an Islamist were not really innocent enough in the eyes of many in Australia's Left (too white?? too middle class??). On the other hand a cruel government callously applying the death penalty to two non white men is more of a cause for them. And we all know how the Left loves causes.
 
peterm1 said:
Kuuan. I agree that the issue of capital punishment transcends political boundaries. There are also many on the right who are opposed to it. And also some who think that it should be rarely used but still "on the table" in exceptional circumstances. I would hazard a guess that there are precious few holding that latter view on the Left.

But the point I am really making is that the most vocal and anti Indonesian voices I am hearing at the moment are those from the Left. The voices from the Right are somewhat more muted and I would say somewhat more balanced for the most part. But the Left with the ABC as its mouthpiece has the running on this constantly beating up the story by blaming Indonesia for applying the death penalty and the Australian government for not doing more (although what it could have done short of sending in a gunship (shades of Rudyard Kipling) is always unstated).

I think what galls me most is the double standard that applies in cases such as this. When someone or a group is seen by the Left as somehow "special" (one of their "sainted minorities") there is no end of invective they will not apply in their favour no matter how horrible their deeds. For some reason, Chan and Sukumaran seem to have been so anointed so their deeds are overlooked. They are just viewed as two unfortunates, tempted to break the law - rather than people who chose to do so as it was seen as being profitable and they were greedy.

But when for example an islamist murderer recently took hostages in Martin Place, some of whom were eventually killed, Australia's vocal Left mainly just ran a campaign about not blaming Muslims for the lone act of a single killer. It might be overstating it to say that hardly a word of condemnation of the the perp was spoken by members of that group. But certainly there was no condemnation of the vile ideology that cased him to act. This kind of hypocisy gets my dander up.

Seems that the innocent civilians murdered by an Islamist were not really innocent enough in the eyes of many in Australia's Left (too white?? too middle class??). On the other hand a cruel government callously applying the death penalty to two non white men is more of a cause for them. And we all know how the Left loves causes.
Click to expand...
You are so correct. Public opinions on matters such as these should be shaped solely by big business and the redoubtable Murdoch press for the benefit of Team Australia.

If you regard the ABC as biased in its reporting you obviously haven't followed The Australian or the Daily Telegraph. At least Media Watch is prepared to take the ABC to task and highlight shortcomings in its broadcasts, something conspicously absent from other media organisations.

The biggest issue I have is with the due process (or lack thereof) issuing from the Indonesian "justice" system. Whether you're of the view that the punishment fit the crimes or not, detaining the individuals concerned for ten years or so, and then executing them, seems perilously close to double jeopardy.
But then I'm not really sure why I'm even bothering to reply to this post. After your disgraceful comments about the former prime minister some time ago it's little wonder you remain on my ignore list and will do for some time yet.
 
michaelwj said:
Personally, I think Australia should has spent the energy elsewhere*, like in protecting the 2 Australian women who are killed by their partners every week. Unlike those executed recently, these women were not convicted of any crimes, yet they receive almost no media or government attention.
Click to expand...

Do you have any links for that - because it seems to contradict the murder rate of less than 1 person per day. Unless they're all classified as homicide without intent?
 
peterm1 said:
But the point I am really making is that the most vocal and anti Indonesian voices I am hearing at the moment are those from the Left. The voices from the Right are somewhat more muted and I would say somewhat more balanced for the most part. But the Left with the ABC as its mouthpiece has the running on this constantly beating up the story by blaming Indonesia for applying the death penalty and the Australian government for not doing more (although what it could have done short of sending in a gunship (shades of Rudyard Kipling) is always unstated).
Click to expand...

I can't agree with this I'm afraid. From my perspective I've seen the complete opposite. Actually, the loudest voices from the left I've heard are those who are saying efforts should be directed more towards issues such as deaths as a result of domestic violence, those seeking asylum and atrocities overseas. Unlike other politically charged issues, I honestly don't believe the Bali Nine is one. It feels more about whether you agree with capital punishment or not. I hear people from both sides of the political spectrum agreeing and disagreeing with each other. By applying a binary interpretation of public opinion based purely on political affiliation I think one oversimplifies an issue that is more complex and worthwhile. It doesn't stop people taking the opportunity to put the boot in to the ABC whenever they get the chance, nor does it stop those from bashing the Telegraph also. The issue transcends this and to suggest it doesn't does a disservice (this is not directed at you).


For some reason, Chan and Sukumaran seem to have been so anointed so their deeds are overlooked. They are just viewed as two unfortunates, tempted to break the law - rather than people who chose to do so as it was seen as being profitable and they were greedy.
Click to expand...
That is without question. I was also given insight by someone who works with the federal police and they went further to say that the individuals in question were particularly nasty pieces of work. I can't confirm this as I'm not privy to the information they were basing this on. That said it is also widely accepted that they are now reformed, which is what I assume people are basing their sympathy on as it's hard to feel for a horrible person.

But when for example an islamist murderer recently took hostages in Martin Place, some of whom were eventually killed, Australia's vocal Left mainly just ran a campaign about not blaming Muslims for the lone act of a single killer. It might be overstating it to say that hardly a word of condemnation of the the perp was spoken by members of that group. But certainly there was no condemnation of the vile ideology that cased him to act. This kind of hypocisy gets my dander up.
Click to expand...
I see what you mean, and to be honest I do agree in a way. I have to say though that even though I may of rolled my eyes at first, I do feel those who were making efforts to defend blaming the greater muslim community for this horrific act were performing a valuable service (whether their motivations were pure or not). Things have a very real habit of spiraling out of control, and without efforts to combat the growing anti muslim sentiment one could have a very nasty situation on the hands. I have a number of friends from the middle east (some muslim some not, two who had chambers above the Lindt Cafe) and I can tell you they were all concerned about being in public after this incident because they looked muslim. They very much remembered the Cronulla Riots also and the growing anti muslim sentiment that impacts upon people who may just look muslim. All of this said, I'm not certain what parallel you're making with a violent religious fundamentalist (who the government should of sorted out years ago, but lets not get in to that), and the Bali Nine. I can't see any hypocrisy. Sure you get plenty of halfwits who like to bang the drum about whatever interest them at that point in time, but I know plenty from the right also. They just usually have less placards.
 
michaelwj said:
I also find it remarkable that Australia(ns) is(are) so up in arms by this, yet nothing is said publically about China (who executed ~2000 people last year), or the USA (who executed ~40). Are we saying that 1 Australian life is worth more than 1000 Chinese or 20 Americans? That is absurd.
Click to expand...

A government's first priority should be protecting its own citizens' interests. The Chinese citizens executed in China and the Americans executed in the USA are not Australia's responsibility, and Australia's government really wouldn't have any leverage in demanding that the US or China stop executing their own people.

I think that's what's different with the Bali case. Two of them were Australian citizens, so Australia's government felt a responsibility to help them.
 
peterm1 said:
But when for example an islamist murderer recently took hostages in Martin Place, some of whom were eventually killed, Australia's vocal Left mainly just ran a campaign about not blaming Muslims for the lone act of a single killer. It might be overstating it to say that hardly a word of condemnation of the the perp was spoken by members of that group. But certainly there was no condemnation of the vile ideology that cased him to act. This kind of hypocisy gets my dander up.
Click to expand...


I don't live in Australia anymore, however seeing things from afar I thought Australia handled the issue really well. You can imagine how the US or perhaps even the UK might have handled it.

There was very little emphasis on the fact that he was Islamist and from where I'm sitting, I highly doubt that had anything to do with it. He had a long history of mental illness and I think he was just using Islam to 'go out with a bang'.

I think the media's portrayal of Islamists should be toned down - these individuals are simply murderers who happen to have some radical beliefs and are hijacking a religion. By associating Islam with Terrorism all we do is alienate the remaining 99.9% of an otherwise moderate society.
 
necessary edit: the first and important part of my answer that originally could be read here was deleted, not by me. It was referring to a post about humanity, immeasurable suffering unnecessarily inflicted and had much relevance to what I tried to express with my photo. That post also had been deleted ( censored? why?).
What I regarded being forced to add only deserves to be a footnote. This edit restores that, thank you.
.........
.

.........
there must exist a technical term in rhetoric that denotes what Peter did. To my displeasure of him reducing the issue to domestic political scrambles he first concedes saying "I agree that the issue of capital punishment transcends political boundaries" only to continue not discussing capital punishment but expounding on his political views on Australian media. It's the point he 'really' is making, as he puts it. Peter, or anyone, can you please give me a name for this cover up + derailing technique?
 
Last edited:
Scheelings said:
I don't live in Australia anymore, however seeing things from afar I thought Australia handled the issue really well. You can imagine how the US or perhaps even the UK might have handled it.

There was very little emphasis on the fact that he was Islamist and from where I'm sitting, I highly doubt that had anything to do with it. He had a long history of mental illness and I think he was just using Islam to 'go out with a bang'.

I think the media's portrayal of Islamists should be toned down - these individuals are simply murderers who happen to have some radical beliefs and are hijacking a religion. By associating Islam with Terrorism all we do is alienate the remaining 99.9% of an otherwise moderate society.
Click to expand...

I did not really intend going here but since you raise these points I feel honour bound to rebut them. In fact this is where I and those of the Left disagree. First as to the Martin Place perp. (Monis) being a whack job, yes it is true. But the same can be said of many islamists. There are any number of such people serving with ISIS at this moment who have a long history in this country of violence and or erratic behaviour that has brought them to the attention of the law in this country over many years. Including the monster who took selfies of his child holding up a severed human head.

But as they say those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. If you read up on the history of the Weimar Republic and Hitler's rise to power in the 1920's for example, you will see that many of his early followers were of just this sort. The gutter sweepings and worst filth in Germany. Debased, violent, brutal and bad. They were attracted to Nazism exactly because they were like this and so was the National Socialist Party which, it follows, would make good use of their violent and brutal tendencies. It is in my view, absurd to believe that islamist organisations like ISIS are any different. They exactly want this type of monster in their ranks as they are useful to them. To minimize the problem by arguing that all radical Islamists like Monis "just had a mental illness" is with the utmost respect, both a cop out and a denial of reality.

As to the meme that there is only a "tiny radical minority" which you are repeating in your post, have a look at the evidence in the form of surveys of Muslim communities in Denmark, Sweden, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany, England, Canada (etc) by Pew Research. The reports are readily available on the internet. Time and again this research shows consistent outcomes result in some commentators saying that between 15% and 25% are radicalized in some way. (e.g supporting the idea of murdering non muslims for "insulting or slandering" islam or in support of jihad). The figures are even worse in predominantly Muslim countries where often it is a majority.

While it may be true that only a "tiny minority" in the West will themselves pick up a weapon, research survey after research survey after research survey shows that there is a worryingly large minority (yes it is still a minority I grant you) who support this kind of behaviour either tacitly or with their money or in other ways. It is therefore quite wrong to talk of the "remaining 99.9% of an otherwise moderate society"

Why is this so? Well start by looking at reports presented to the US Congress and Senate which a few years ago reported that over the past 30 years salafist / wahhabist (fundamentalists) in Saudi, Qatar and elsewhere have pumped a huge amount of money, I think the figure then was $100 Billion, into radicalizing Muslims in the West largely by creating radical mosques with radical imams to preach a violent radical message. That is why we have this problem. We have allowed it to grow. Ignoring it or pretending that it is not an issue will not make it go away.

It is also a problem because there are too many in the west who avert their eyes and continue with the myth of the "tiny radical minority" - which facts simply do not support. It is to the credit of the moderate muslim community in various countries that many individuals have not gone down this path. But I have to say this - it is ill informed hogwash to argue that this is a problem of a "tiny minority".
 
Chriscrawfordphoto said:
A government's first priority should be protecting its own citizens' interests. The Chinese citizens executed in China and the Americans executed in the USA are not Australia's responsibility, and Australia's government really wouldn't have any leverage in demanding that the US or China stop executing their own people.

I think that's what's different with the Bali case. Two of them were Australian citizens, so Australia's government felt a responsibility to help them.
Click to expand...

Of course Chris. There is however an overtone of any capital punishment at all is abhorrent, especially from all sides of government, which is not reflected in their response. After all, it's only a matter of time before an Australian is on death row in China.

I disagree that we can ignore what other countries do to their own citizens. We contantly chastise countries (especially those in the middle east) for their human rights records, yet seem to turn a blind eye when our largest trading partners (China and USA) execute their citizens. It appears to be we only care when it suits us, ie, when it's our citizens or we're following the mob. It is our moral responsibility to care for all the worlds citizens.
 
I don't believe execution should be acceptable anywhere they knew the penalty and chose to risk it.
Any life lost is a tragedy but how many have been spared the horror of what drug addiction can do by this being taken off the streets.
 
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