Beater or Show Piece?

[healyzh]

This might be something of a strange question, but I'm curious on people's input. One one hand a Leica is a tool, it is meant to be used. On the other it is a work of art, a thing of beauty.

If you were getting ready to buy your first Leica, and had settled on getting the M6 would you buy something that shows signs of average use, or would you go for a pristine model?

I won't even ask the Chrome vs. Black question, as I've very mixed feelings on that, but I do love the look of a chrome camera.

I plan on using the Leica, not sitting it on a shelf and admiring it. Initially it will be used with a Jupiter-8 lens, but I plan to add better lenses in the next year or so. My fear is that if I go with a pristine model, every little mark I put on the camera will irritate me. I have a Nikon F3HP that I bought used, it looks like it's been through a warzone. If I were to ding it up, I'd probably never even realize it! 😀 I like it because it is a fine piece of equipment that has character, and I got for a song. I honestly think I've answered my own question, but am curious what others would do in this situation.

Obviously a fully functional camera is the most important thing.

 

[Bogotron]

I would LIKE to be able to afford a 'pristine' model M (for the reasons RITskellar described above), but the reality is they're just too often out of my budget. So I compromise and go for something that is mechanically sound and still looks good (definitely don't want a body that looks like it's been trashed), but has signs of normal wear. Either way, Leicas don't need to be babied, they need to be used, so if it looks like it's been used I'm a-okay with that.

 

[Roger Hicks]

I once bought a mint-in-box IIIg, case, instruction book, the lot, and was afraid to use it. But that was a rare, out-of-production camera even then. Otherwise, yes, the first scratch is a bit nerve-wracking but generally a camera in good cosmetic condition is in good mechanical condition too, so I prefer mint(ish) Then again, a lot depends on what comes up at what price. My black M3 was fairly worn but I got it silly-cheap.

Cheers,

R.

 

[healyzh]

@RITskellar, I like your reasoning. Resale value has nothing to do with it. When I get a camera I have no intention of ever selling it, so resale value doesn't even enter my mind. At the same time what does enter my mind is that the price difference will go a nice part of the way towards a Lens.

 

[Graham Line]

...

I plan on using the Leica, not sitting it on a shelf and admiring it.

If you plan to take it out and shoot pictures, there is absolutely no good reason to buy one that's never been out of the box unless you have the money to spring for a bona fide brand new body.

 

[WalterM]

On the point of buying it in LNIB condition...

I just sold my MP in the classifieds not too long ago, and purchased a LNIB M7 with a much lower price because they decided to replace the camera leather, "ruining" it's resale value. It was mint other than that(with all the papers and the strap still in plastic).

I plan on bonding with this camera 😉

 

[cnphoto]

I bought an M3 in really nice condition, i've added a few scratches and marks. the first irritated me quiet a bit (stupid mistake, dropped the camera). i purchased one in such a good condition because, where i am, i didn;t have the option of 'try before buy' so went for the nicest rated camera i could afford with the hopes of, in turn, getting a fully functioning camera and i did.

i think i will eventually want to add an M2 to my collection, in a few years. when i do i will be going for the cheapest, most beat-up one i can find - i have one working M so getting one that requires service and or repairs for a cheap price is fine with me 🙂

i also like the idea of fixing and keeping things for a long time, maintaining them and keeping them off the trash heap. i think is why i steared away from digital cameras and back toward old cameras.

 

[ItsReallyDarren]

Go for something in-between. My first Leica was a very worn M3 which I got really cheap. It became less cheap overtime when I had to have a budding mold spot in the viewfinder cleaned and replace a dried out shutter cloth. Eventually one side of the shutter was slower than the other. Total cost down it probably would have been cheaper to buy a clean user M here.

A clean user would be a good bet, working but not thrashed.

 

[capitalK]

When I look at the scratches and dents on my used cameras I think to myself "damn, I wish I had done that."

Ideally I would like to buy a pristine Leica and use it until it becomes a beater. I haven't had the opportunity to do this yet. I have no interest in keeping my gear pristine if it means it rarely gets used.

 

[kshapero]

i have bought several used cameras in the bargain category and have never been disappointed. I had a mint mint M7 ala carte and I was petrified to use it. dang I miss that one.

 

[atlcruiser]

FWIIW: I buy the best condition I can then use it...maybe "accidently" beat on it a bit : )I figure the better it looks to begin with the longer it will look good using it. evnetually I would like a perfect MP or such to just "have" on the shelf.

The saving grace for me is that mint is a bit too expensive for me...

 

[alun severn]

'Used but not abused' or 'average signs of use' seem perfectly acceptable conditions based on what I have bought, and perfectly good cameras too. On the other hand, it is nice to buy from new and know that the whole of the instrument's history 'belongs' to you and has been created by you... And yet again on the other hand, buying what you can afford is what probably makes the most sense..

 

[Keith]

This might be something of a strange question, but I'm curious on people's input. One one hand a Leica is a tool, it is meant to be used. On the other it is a work of art, a thing of beauty.

If you were getting ready to buy your first Leica, and had settled on getting the M6 would you buy something that shows signs of average use, or would you go for a pristine model?

I won't even ask the Chrome vs. Black question, as I've very mixed feelings on that, but I do love the look of a chrome camera.

I plan on using the Leica, not sitting it on a shelf and admiring it. Initially it will be used with a Jupiter-8 lens, but I plan to add better lenses in the next year or so. My fear is that if I go with a pristine model, every little mark I put on the camera will irritate me. I have a Nikon F3HP that I bought used, it looks like it's been through a warzone. If I were to ding it up, I'd probably never even realize it! 😀 I like it because it is a fine piece of equipment that has character, and I got for a song. I honestly think I've answered my own question, but am curious what others would do in this situation.

Obviously a fully functional camera is the most important thing.

I have a little issue with that statement .... all cameras IMO are works of art ... not just Leicas! 😛

I really, really like the look of my Crown Graphic and I don't care that it's a little worn here and there ... if it was pristine I may not drag it around with me as much as I do!

My opinion is don't go for pristine ... if you get an absolute bargain and it happens to be pristine so be it but don't turn it into a shelf queen. I have a mint M2 that happened to cost me what I would have expected to pay for a beater and although there is no big investment in the camera I tend to treat it with kid gloves ... it's ridiculous and I'm ashamed! 😛

 

[Roger Hicks]

'Shelf queen' is the choice of the photographer, not the camera.

As I said, my IIIg was too good to use -- so I sold it.

My new MP wasn't an out-of-production, rare, sought-after camera -- so I used it.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Phantomas]

I go for whatever's available as a good deal. I have beaters, I have mints, but not so mint anymore coz I use them all.

 

[Sparrow]

First thing I would check is the sprocket shaft and pegs, the more brass you can see the more film has been over it (it started life completely black), , that and then the sound of the slow speed escarpment winding down

I always think if they look poor on the outside chances are they will be the same internally, so I’d tend to buy from the proverbial dentist given a choice


PS Kith; I got one like that … feel the same, embarrassing eh?

 

[parsec1]

As previously said, you make the mistake of referring to the purchase of a new/pristine camera as being a "shelf queen". Many people, including myself, would much prefer to buy a brand new M2, M3, M4 or whatever, if they could afford to do so, and NOT because they wanted to stick it on a shelf.

There is a direct connection between the experience of using a particular camera (or anything for that matter) and the actual results you get from using it. If that wasn't the case, then maybe all RF photographers would use a Bessa for very pragmatic, purely functional reasons. The experience of holding and using a Leica is simply better to some people (not ALL), and that CAN translate to better pictures (but one does not guarantee the other). And further more, to some people, the experience of using a NEW Leica is all that much nicer, and likewise CAN result in better and more enjoyable picture taking.



If you're a pro, results may be everything, but those results are still influenced by experience to some degree. And if you're a serious amateur like myself, then maybe, just maybe, the process of making pictures may be just as important, if not more so, than the actual pictures themselves.

Just my humble personal opinion.

Room for all opinions in our medium.

Went and collected a brand new D3x from a store in London.
On way home had an urgent call from the picture desk '30 children trapped in bus after torrential rainstorm and water was rising ,get there ASAP' Arrived on scene, ripped camera out of box slapped on a 20-35 and put a 70 200mm in pocket and waded thru the water to get to the bus. Climbed on embankment to get a better angle. Embankment collapsed throwing me and the camera into 5 feet of raging floodwater. Hadn't even had time to put the D3 on the insurance. Camera and lenses unrepairable.
Now have a $10,000 paperweight.
All offers welcome !!!
All Children rescued without harm.

 

[maddoc]

The only camera in "mint" condition I have ever bought used was my former MP. It looked pristine, like never been used and I too was afraid of making any scratches ... 😱 Unfortunately, that camera spent half of the time that I had it at Leica for being repaired... I also once had a "Franken-M3 Leica", it came with a M2 VF (the seller had no idea about that). I used that camera for some time and while it looked like a real beater, it was reasonable cheap and worked without any problem.

 

[Nokton48]

I prefer beaters. Often I buy broken, then have it fixed. I find I save money this way (usually).

 

[silvalis]

I went a new CV, then a used M, then an even more used M, then a pristine M, then an almost pristine M, then another pristine M, then a used CV and now I'm back to a used M.

Pristine is nice and all that, but nothing beats an M you're not afraid to use...