Beginner needs your opinion and advice! Which Leica do you recommend?

T

timothyd

TimothyD
Local time
5:14 AM
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
51
Location
Binghamton, NY and New York, NY
View My Gallery
Hello, I am a new member, and new to photography. I got my first camera last year as a gift, a nikon d40x. I instantly became obsessed. But as I used my camera more and more, I noticed things I was dissatisfied by. Looking online at other peoples photos and doing some reading on the topic, I've become convinced that learning to use film photography would be immeasurably beneficial to me.

Here are my reasons for dissatisfaction with digital (or maybe just my specific digital camera?)
-while I take lots of photos, and love to, using digital, I don't feel that I know anything substantial about photography
-I take too many photos, because my camera can hold like 400 photos, I take too many photos, and rely on being able to immediately look at it on the camera and decide whether I like it or not
-I haven't learned anything about aperture and shutter speed, although I tend to use the manual setting on my camera, if any of you are familiar with the nikon d40x..it does not have a small screen on the top that shows the current settings, instead it is displayed like this:
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/12738297@N07/2191607257/" title="lcdmonitor by timothydollard, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2259/2191607257_43f00ec800_o.jpg" width="240" height="180" alt="lcdmonitor" /></a>
-I want to carry my camera around with me as much as I can, but carrying around my nikon is frankly annoying. I would like something smaller.
-My photos often do not come out as I see the subject. I often feel the need to edit them using photoshop to get them to look as I saw it. I often feel that the colors are drab.
-I really enjoy clarity and crispness in most photos, and I don't see that in my digital photos, unless I am under great daylight, which I am often not.
-For me, digital photos also lack the emotive potential of film photography.

After looking around many websites, doing some reading, and looking at photos, it seems to me that leica's seem to be a favorite for many people. I dont think these cameras would gather such a following unless they were worthy of it. So I think I would like to get a leica to really learn and further my interest in photography.

My question is which Leica? (or do you think a different camera would be better for me? If so, why?)

I want a camera that is easy to carry, dependable, not easily breakable, produces very high quality images, I think I may not be able to part with auto focus yet..because there are many times when I want to capture something that will not wait for me to focus manually (you're welcome to convince me otherwise), and basically just a camera that will solve some or all of my problems with my current digital.

Please help me with your advice and be thorough in your explanations and/or arguments.

Thank you.
 
If you really want to go through the basics, do B&W, develop it and scan it yourself ( don't save money on the scanner, it is more important than the lens on your camera), this will take some time to learn, but you will get CONTROL over your shots.

Don't worry about autofocus, RF's focus really fast, and often you want to focus on something which is not the main subject.

If you want to start on the cheap, get one of the good fixed lens cameras like Olympus or Yashica - go through the fixed RF forum to read the opinions on various brands.
 
Last edited:
First off, regardless of the tool you use, your photography won't improve unless you practice and learn. You can do that with your Nikon just as well as with a Leica or other old manual camera. So, which Leica is best, I don't know, any of them will do. But so will a Pentax ME Super, or Olympus OM of some type or Minolta, Canon, Nikon........

Next, I would say that taking lots of photos is not a bad thing either. That is one way to learn. Explore your subject. Take a lot of photos from different perspectives, different focal lengths and in different light. That is how you can see what you like and don't like, how you learn.

If you have only been using a camera for a year, you have a lot of time to develop your skill. Photography classes at a community college or other school, lots of good books, and view images, on line and in print. And remember, photography is a form of art, as important as the technical stuff is, your satisfaction is just as necessary. If you produce images that you think are the best ever made, made exactly the way you want to technically, and everyone else thinks they suck....... well, they will see it your way eventually, maybe. And that is fine, as long as you are happy.
 
if it must be a leica, then Id recommend going with the CL - its not so costly, and the summicron 40 that usually comes with it is stellar. This was my entry point into the Leica world (though I have had film SLR experience).

others you may want to consider are minolta CLE, canon canonet QL GIII, Yashica GTN or MG or Electro CC (i have both the GTN and MG). in fact, google for cameraquest's compact RF page and read through that. these cameras are small, well built and can be bought for not alot of money. sounds like what you're looking for.

finally, from your post, im not entirely convinced that digital is a problem. it may be that you need to spend some time learning about composition (check amazon for the bryan petersen book 'learning to see' ... i think thats the title), or about exposure (again, check amazon for a book on exposure eg 'understanding exposure').

regardless of whether you're using digital or film, you need to understand the basics, and id strongly recommeded getting a couple of books, and maybe a less expensive compact RF just to fudge around with.

as always, this is IMHO, YMMV etc...
 
start with buying a 35mm/f2 lense for your nikon,
buy also a small storagecard for about 40 photos.

Than go on taking photos like you'll do it with a film camera,
remeber you'll only have 36 possibilitys on a film.

After a while you may feel how it feels taking a film camera,
not shooting like with a mashinegun,
taking one photo after the other.
Testing dof, converting into black&white.

A lot to do.

And then take a M6 with a 50mm / f2,8 elmar
 
I am not sure you know what you are talking about. You have got an idea about what the best equipment is by listening to others.

Leicas are great cameras. But you need to be a decent technically skilled photographer to get good results.

Don't kid yourself. Professionals shoot A LOT. Maybe one in 50 or 100 is a good image. And every picture that ends up as something has been through Photoshop. That's just what it takes.

If you think you shoot too much. Shoot less and think more. Try to turn of your screen. It's only ment to be used to check exposure. Concentrate on your subject and your technique.

If you shoot film, you might drown in all the more or less unimportant stuff and not take the time for the important (shooting).

The D40X is not a bad camera to start out with. But when you progress you might want something better like the D80 or D300. They are more expensive and bigger though.

I am afraid that it would be difficult to find a camera that is compact, easy to use with autofocus yet give you control and great quality. D40x is petit in my eyes.

I wouldn't go rangefinder just yet if I where you. The SLR is a great learning tool and the DSLR even more so.

Start by learning some simple stuff. Aperture, what it does to depth of field and shutterspeed. Use Aperture priority and study what happens to speed. Learn what different focal length does. Take one step at a time and you will learn it better. If you buy a Leica and develop and scan film it would be like trying to fly a jet plane all manual. I know folks learned it that way back in the day (not the scanning thing but developing and shooting all manual) but take advantage of the modern technology available to you.

Shoot RAW and learn how to master post processing. You can get very good results if you know how to handle your shots.

I don't know if I am helpful at all, but that's what I got and think.

Happy shooting
 
-I want to carry my camera around with me as much as I can, but carrying around my nikon is frankly annoying. I would like something smaller.
Click to expand...
If it weren't for the remark about the Nikon being uncomfortable to handle, I'd have suggested getting a second hand F75/N75 or similar to try out film. Add a decent zoom lens to the mix (there are some very capable inexpensive performers in the 3.5-4.5 aperture range), or even a 50mm prime, and you've got all your needs covered:
- It's got depth of field preview, so that you can see live what aperture does,
- It's a camera whose lenses you could mount on the D40x,
- It's even got auto focus if you think you can't part with that..
- These go for next to nothing on *bay

And make no mistake, when it comes to portability, an F75/N75 is a lot lighter than a Leica-M. Oh, and it's about a factor 10x cheaper as well, which to me would make it a more common sense way to find out whether film is the solution to your problems..

But of course, an F75/N75 isn't as sexy as a Leica..
 
How about taking a photography class or a workshop instead of spending money on new gear? Remember, many famous photographers used whatever camera was availible, not a specific brand for the sake of a brand. While RF is a fun type of camera to use - it's not for everyone and like anything else takes learning and has it's limitations. What you have now is good enough kit to keep working on your skills.

PS dont forget that many people here use other cameras besides Leica or RF for that matter!
 
I'll second the thing about books. Get a or a couple of good alround books on photo technique. And taking a course or joining a photoclub of some sort is not a bad idea.
 
If you want to get a leica here are three choices that I would recommend.

1) Leica MP Silver body: great camera, it is simple, all mechanical, and it will really help you learn the basics to photography. Shutter speeds and aperture. I would also recommend that you buy one lens first and really get to know that one camera body and lens combination. I think a 50mm summicron presapherical would be a good choice for you. You can take some really nice portraits with the lens, as well street photography and landscape. the wider angle lenses can be a little trickier to use and there is slight distortion, where there is little distortion on a 50mm.

2) Second choice would be am M6 Classic pre-TTL. I have seen these camera going on the used market for about $1000.00 or less, exceptional deal. Perfect way to get started in a RF system. The M6 is a little bit faster to set the settings than an MP some may argue that it is just as quick, which I could also see what you are use to the system.

3) third choice would be the M7. What is nice about the M7 is that it has both options Aperture priority and manual. Aperture priority means when the camera is in semi automatic mode, it allows you to set the aperture of the camera, thus allowing you to control your depth of field. the camera will automatically select your shutter speed for you according to the aperture you have selected. This is really a nice feature sometimes.

I have found that with the MP, I am more selective with the images that I create, and maybe exposing a roll of film over a week. the MP really slows me down in a good way, allowing me to think about all the variables.

The M6 is somewhere in the middle between the MP and M7.

The M7 is much faster, not necessarily in a good way, but I do tend to expose more rolls of film quicker.

good luck, let us know what you decide to purchase.
 
I'm not sure a rangefinder is necessarily the best answer to the way you want to shoot.

Film might be one way, but it almost sounds like you just need to slow down, look at your lens choices for your existing camera and work from that for a bit.

Maybe getting a couple of prime lenses will be enough for now until you start to refine your vision. Get the 50 1.8 and a 35/2 and walk around with those a bit. The D40x is pretty small with one of those on it. And both will vastly outperform all but the priciest of zoom lenses in regards to sharpness and internal contrast.
 
PS I also think an excellent book for you to read to help you understand photography better is Nature of Photography by Stephen Shore. He really explains photography in different yet such a simple way, and chooses images that really depict what he is referring to.

remember camera is just a tool . . .
 
martin-f5, best advice here IMHO. I did similar for my daughter but got a 24mm and a 50mm to go on her d40x. the thing to bear in mind with this set up is that it will be manual focus as there is no coupling for autofocus on the body. get out there and take lots and lots of pictures though and you will soon figure out what works for you. I just got a copy of exposure by alien skin so that she can convert into b&w easily with the look of film. OK so it's not film but the pics look nice and she's happy with them and isn't that the whole point? being happy with your own efforts.
As for size, the d40x with a 35 f2 isn't that much different from my m6 with a 35.
If you still have a hankering then just to be sure, get yourself an OM1 with a 35 and try that first with film. Sinking a lot of cash into a Leica before you are happy with your technique may turn out disappointing.
 
timothyd said:
I want a camera that is easy to carry, dependable, not easily breakable, produces very high quality images, I think I may not be able to part with auto focus yet..because there are many times when I want to capture something that will not wait for me to focus manually (you're welcome to convince me otherwise), and basically just a camera that will solve some or all of my problems with my current digital.
Click to expand...

You are describing almost all film SLR and RF cameras made before plastic ruled the day 😛

... except for the autofocus part. I have a toddler, and I *learn* to use manual focus to take pictures of her. It aint' easy, but it's infinitely more rewarding.

Lots of good advices given already. If you're a class person, take some class, if you're a book/internet self-studying type, go at it. We have some authors in this forum, and numerous experienced photographers, get your feet wet and enjoy.

Leica-M is probably the least that you need at this point (especially if you'd like to stay with auto-focus). 😀
 
Lot of good ideas have been scattered through here, let me add a few and modify a few.

First, the 40x is a fine camera to start with. I love rangefinders, but you can learn photography with a 40x just as well. You might have a few extra steps you need to do, but learning the camera you have and how to get the best out of it will help you with every other camera you might get. Be it a M4-P or a M8, you need to know your camera. It takes time and effort, but do not give up.

I had friends how shot TONS of film, ran through 36 exps they way I might go through 2. Mind you, I went through miles of Tri-X in High School and a good amount of Kodachrome and Extachrome over the years too. The easiest way to learn photography is to shoot lots of pictures. The challenging part is then you need to look at what you shot and review them. These is where most people slack off and loose interest. But it's the most important part.

Give yourself assignments, shoot a tree, a flower, a friend, an event, a street, you pick. Take different angles, perspectives, change your depth of field, shoot close up. Then go back home and up load the shots. Look at them on the computer and decide which looks better and why. Then go an reshoot it, different angles and such and do the same evaluation again. Bright the best of the outings together and see what you think, which is better and why. Which tells a story, which gets you interested, excited, which gets you engaged in the subject.

There's a book for kids on photography, small, from National Geographic Photographers (they say), get it from the library. Learn about shutter speeds, apertures and film speed (ISO, ASA, DIN). Your camera has all of them. Go out and shoot a scene with every shutter speed and see what happens (you need to learn how to control them on your camera). Same with the apertures (f-stops). You need to learn first hand what each does. Your sensor has the capability to be adjusted to different sensitivities (ISO equivalents) try all of them and see what the results are. Those are the thee main camera controls you have. You need to learn when to use which.

Now for the lens side. Go and get two Nikon autofocus lenses. The first should be either a 24 or a 28, both are F2.8. Buy new, you can sell them for almost as much as you paid if you do not like them. The 24 is a bit wider, the 28 focuses a bit closer. As you have a 1.5x crop factor the 24 will become a 36mm on a Leica, the 28 will become 42mm. I would recommend the 24. The second lens is a 50mm f1.8. This will cost new about $150 max and give you a 75mm equivalent on a Leica. Together these two lenses will give you a great combo, fast and small.

Now go out and shoot to learn each lens. Test them on subjects, see how they have different perspectives, when to use which. I am not a big fan of Zoom lenses as the quality is not as good as "Prime" lenses (aka lenses of a single focal length).

SIgn up for a class with your two lenses, get a small case for your camera and two lenses. Go out and shoot. Go to shows and photo galleries and see what different photographers shoot, what you like and what you do not. There are hundreds if not thousands of great photographers out there. Pick up picture books at the library and see what you like, copy it then tweak it to make it your own. Look around for camera clubs. I think they often are a bit too particular on the styles they seem to like, but they have monthly topics and it's fun to see what other people think. Take a class at a park district or local community college.

I love rangefinders, I'm down to two right now, a Leica M4-P and a Nikon S3-2000. I will be getting a Nikon D300 in the coming months. I have an old 24/2.8, 50/1.8 and 180/2.8 set of lenses that I will be using on my camera. They are manual focus, but will work fine. I have three other focal lengths, but I doubt they will get much use.

You can learn the basics of photography with a D40X, but you have a bit more steps to learn how to control the camera than you would with many Leicas. Do not let that stop you. Once you get better you may want to buy an RF. Another place to look into the www.nikonians.org. Lots of great stuff there too.

B2 (;->
 
If you must get a Leica, which I can understand completely, then my vote goes for an MP and a 50mm Elmar or summicron. The Elmar collapses into the body making the camera smaller. The MP is fully mechanical and manual. Being fully manual, you have to focus it, set the app and shutter speed. This will force you to think about both. I have one and love it dearly.

If you are someone who appreciates finely crafted mechanical devices, the MP and Leica lenses will touch your soul once you have them in your hands. This atribute will make you want to have it with you as much as possible, which will lead to taking more pictures, which will lead to more experience, which will hopefully increase your skill.

If you decide RF photography isn't for you, you will be able to sell them fairly quickly.

Just my Leica experience shared,

John
 
Thank you all. This was all very helpful.

I forgot to mention that my grandfather recently gave me a few of his old cameras, one of them is a Zeiss Ikon Contax IIIa with a sonnar 1:1.5 50 mm lens (and a whole leather kit that includes two different lenses, and cleaning supplies) and a olympus pen ee-2. The Zeiss is in good condition as far as scratches and dents go, but is it common for these cameras to still work? In addition, I am confused about what some of the dials are for.

In response to what most people are saying: of course I know I have so much to learn, and I probably could and will learn more from using my d40x in the future. But I still feel that using a manual film camera would force me to learn the basics, and I may need to be forced. One year with a manual film camera, and I would learn a lot about aperture and shutter speed. One year with my nikon, and I have learned a lot about what I like visually, framing, lighting etc, but not a lot about the basics. I do not expect to buy a rangefinder and suddenly be a great photographer, not at all. I'm sure I'll be worse than I am with my nikon, but with time, it will help me to become better..and I think that will transfer over to me being better with my digital. I am trying to sign up for a photography class at my college, but it is a small class and I am pretty sure I will not be able to get in until next year. I would really like to read some books...so thank you for your suggestions, I will go to a book store and look at them, if there are any more book suggestions, I would appreciate it.
 
Yes it is common for the 50 plus year old cameras to work. And the IIIa and Sonnar are no slouch!

Given that, my recommendation remains the same. Get a 50 and a 35 prime for your D40x.

But also get a CLA for the contax and lenses (much cheaper than any leica kit). Get a hand held meter and learn to use that IIIa. It's fantastic. And you'll learn tonnes.
 
since the one built into the IIIa is almost certainly dead or off - I'd get something vey small, but handheld like the Sekonic 208, or the Gossen Digisix.

I carry a digisix to use with my meterless Canon P's and find it very quick and easy to use.

You could also go with something like the VCII but stacking that on top of the IIIa could start to feel awkward.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom