NickTrop
Veteran
Heh... don't discuss religion or politics. Mental note - add one to the list - STINKIN' CAMERAS!
(I still don't see what these DSLRs that are as big as a watermelon and cost as much as late model used car "buy" you over my 17 year old $100 K-mart special the (Cosina) Vivitar 3000S Pentax K-mount/M42 (adapter) that costs one bazillionth of the price and works/looks as new 17 years after purchase other than moire patterns, "jaggies", random "IR" effects, other digital artifacts, and the ability to download and install "patches" and about a pound more of camera... Some "revolution". Maybe if you're a commercial photographer ho and shoot thousands of frames a day of high school students in front of a blue background with a flag you can save on film costs and can easily remove pimples digitally using Fred Miranda's pimple popper plug-in in PS in batch mode, or you shoot portraits in the middle of a shopping mall for busy consumers who want their $5.00 family portrait right NOW... )
Geez, I did it again. Broke my own rule in about a nanosecond. Feels like January 2nd, 'cept I'm not hung over.
Camera Marketer: You're needin' an SLR. They come in two flavors: film and digital.
Camera Buyer: What do they do?
Camera Marketer: Take pictures.
Camera Buyer: Is there any difference in quality?
Camera Marketer: There's some debate about that but truth be told, not really.
Camera Buyer: How about cost?
Camera Marketer: The digital cost $5000. The film costs $100.
Camera Buyer: Fine then, I'll take the digital.
?????
Camera Marketer: A "wise" choice! (heh, heh...)
Camera Buyer: Fine, here's my Visa.
Camera Marketer: Well to use this camera you'll also need an upgraded PC with more RAM and more storage - that's around $2500, and you'll need an inkjet but don't get the cheap one they only print to 8X10, get this one here that's $600. Now, would you be interested in Photoshop or Aperture? Adobe CSII, that'll be $1000. The batteries on these babies last a long time - HOURS(!) when they're new but you don't them running out when you get that perfect shot, so here's another spare, that's $100. etc, etc., etc,
... that'll be $9,857 dollars and sixty four cents with tax, please.
Buyer: That's pricey and will max out my Visa. Put the camera on this one, and the other stuff I need on this one. Heh, two maxed out credit cards. Well, it's only money!
Camera Marketer: Yes, but think of all the money you'll save on film and processing!
Buyer: Yeah, at about $10 a pop for film and a set of prints it sure adds up.
Camera Marketer: Great! Thanks for your purchase. Now when you get home, don't forget to download that software patch after you spend your weekend getting everything set up and running smoothly. The patch fixes that "random IR" bug, the "jaggies", and that problem of turning asian people's skin tones a bright orange.
Buyer: I don't know much about Photoshop. Is it difficult to learn?
Camera Marketer: Only takes about a couple years to get going, about the same as learning to play the piano or the guitar. We offer classes, would you like to sign up?
Buyer: Laughs, that'll have to wait. I don't have any more money, you see. I'm not even sure if I can afford to eat tonight or pay the rent this month! Well I needed to lose a few pounds anyhow.
Camera Marketer: hahahahah! We'll see you in two years when the next model comes out and your camera is obsolete. Come back when you pay down your credit card so you can buy a lens and start taking pictures!
Camera Buyer: What do the lenses cost?
Camera Marketer: They're EXORBANTLY priced! But these aren't your father's Canon F lenses. These have little motors that focus for you. They work well most of the time and aren't too noisey. Imagine back in the old days when you had to actually bend your wrist to focus! Hahahahaha! Barbaric!
Camera Buyer: See you in a few months when I pay down my charges a bit! I'll stop back in and buy a lens.
Camera Marketer: See you then! Be sure to pay your charges down enough for a Flash gun. These new zoom lenses aren't aren't as fast as those old ones. Flash pictures turn out better anyway. Natural light candids are so passe.
------
Boy, I really stink at the "resolution" stuff :/
(I still don't see what these DSLRs that are as big as a watermelon and cost as much as late model used car "buy" you over my 17 year old $100 K-mart special the (Cosina) Vivitar 3000S Pentax K-mount/M42 (adapter) that costs one bazillionth of the price and works/looks as new 17 years after purchase other than moire patterns, "jaggies", random "IR" effects, other digital artifacts, and the ability to download and install "patches" and about a pound more of camera... Some "revolution". Maybe if you're a commercial photographer ho and shoot thousands of frames a day of high school students in front of a blue background with a flag you can save on film costs and can easily remove pimples digitally using Fred Miranda's pimple popper plug-in in PS in batch mode, or you shoot portraits in the middle of a shopping mall for busy consumers who want their $5.00 family portrait right NOW... )
Geez, I did it again. Broke my own rule in about a nanosecond. Feels like January 2nd, 'cept I'm not hung over.
Camera Marketer: You're needin' an SLR. They come in two flavors: film and digital.
Camera Buyer: What do they do?
Camera Marketer: Take pictures.
Camera Buyer: Is there any difference in quality?
Camera Marketer: There's some debate about that but truth be told, not really.
Camera Buyer: How about cost?
Camera Marketer: The digital cost $5000. The film costs $100.
Camera Buyer: Fine then, I'll take the digital.
?????
Camera Marketer: A "wise" choice! (heh, heh...)
Camera Buyer: Fine, here's my Visa.
Camera Marketer: Well to use this camera you'll also need an upgraded PC with more RAM and more storage - that's around $2500, and you'll need an inkjet but don't get the cheap one they only print to 8X10, get this one here that's $600. Now, would you be interested in Photoshop or Aperture? Adobe CSII, that'll be $1000. The batteries on these babies last a long time - HOURS(!) when they're new but you don't them running out when you get that perfect shot, so here's another spare, that's $100. etc, etc., etc,
... that'll be $9,857 dollars and sixty four cents with tax, please.
Buyer: That's pricey and will max out my Visa. Put the camera on this one, and the other stuff I need on this one. Heh, two maxed out credit cards. Well, it's only money!
Camera Marketer: Yes, but think of all the money you'll save on film and processing!
Buyer: Yeah, at about $10 a pop for film and a set of prints it sure adds up.
Camera Marketer: Great! Thanks for your purchase. Now when you get home, don't forget to download that software patch after you spend your weekend getting everything set up and running smoothly. The patch fixes that "random IR" bug, the "jaggies", and that problem of turning asian people's skin tones a bright orange.
Buyer: I don't know much about Photoshop. Is it difficult to learn?
Camera Marketer: Only takes about a couple years to get going, about the same as learning to play the piano or the guitar. We offer classes, would you like to sign up?
Buyer: Laughs, that'll have to wait. I don't have any more money, you see. I'm not even sure if I can afford to eat tonight or pay the rent this month! Well I needed to lose a few pounds anyhow.
Camera Marketer: hahahahah! We'll see you in two years when the next model comes out and your camera is obsolete. Come back when you pay down your credit card so you can buy a lens and start taking pictures!
Camera Buyer: What do the lenses cost?
Camera Marketer: They're EXORBANTLY priced! But these aren't your father's Canon F lenses. These have little motors that focus for you. They work well most of the time and aren't too noisey. Imagine back in the old days when you had to actually bend your wrist to focus! Hahahahaha! Barbaric!
Camera Buyer: See you in a few months when I pay down my charges a bit! I'll stop back in and buy a lens.
Camera Marketer: See you then! Be sure to pay your charges down enough for a Flash gun. These new zoom lenses aren't aren't as fast as those old ones. Flash pictures turn out better anyway. Natural light candids are so passe.
------
Boy, I really stink at the "resolution" stuff :/
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DavidH
Overweight and over here
Don't forgot the new 'digital' range of bags
New 'digital' tripods
(Yeah...I don't get that either)
Cost of the ink for the inkjet
Frequent software upgrades (paid versions)
(Sadly I have to get that...)
Oh and the sensor cleaning kit - mine cost 35 quid - around $70. No, really.
And the nagging feeling that after all that actually your photography isn't much better...
(All intended in good fun - I shoot both film and digital - before anyone complains)
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Michael I.
Well-known
digital flare resistant filters(with no visible coatings), digital camera straps and digital archival photo paper(exposed optically in a digital enlarger and souped in digital chemicals).
Michael I.
Well-known
bottom line the photographer takes\makes a picture - the tool is secondary. I am a film kind of guy. I just dislike the marketing departments of camera manufacturers saying digital is better and will save your money and saying "cheaper but just as good". I compared my friends 35-350 canon L lens against my nikkor AI 50/1.4 and my pictures are had better color rendition,sharpness and bokeh(some of which is due to the film vs. sensor).
when I showed him BW(expired film) Jupiter 8 pictures and told him I got it for 5$ he wanted to cry.
when I showed him BW(expired film) Jupiter 8 pictures and told him I got it for 5$ he wanted to cry.
thefsb
Established
Is 10fps still considered still photography?
dazedgonebye
Veteran
Michael I. said:
You compared what to what? What a shocker that a prime would beat a 10X super-zoom!
I bet the Canon was sharper at 200mm, or maybe even at 350mm.
louisb
Well-known
It really does look like an awesome camera and if money were no object it would be wonderful to own. I also do feel with both Canon and Nikon that they are very customer driven in their product development. There are a lot of very nice features in this camera which would make it a pleasure to use.
But life is too short and I find it hard to find time to make use of the equipment I own. My aspiration to own an M8 continues, though.
LouisB
But life is too short and I find it hard to find time to make use of the equipment I own. My aspiration to own an M8 continues, though.
LouisB
NickTrop
Veteran
thefsb said:
Yes, it's a feature that was inspired by the, "even a blind monkey stumbles upon the occasional banana" school of thought.
S
Socke
Guest
Im still waiting for a picture of a lioness feeding her kids taken with a 50mm lens, I settle on an eagle in flight.
OTOH, I think I will take those kind of shots with a long tele on a dSLR even if others do it with a normal. I'm no Capa after all.
OTOH, I think I will take those kind of shots with a long tele on a dSLR even if others do it with a normal. I'm no Capa after all.
Bill Liss
Member
I hear you about the bags, I've been trying to find a little padded camera bag for my RF but everything in the stores is for digital.
S
Socke
Guest
NickTrop said:
If you shoot fast moving subjects with limited dynamic range and/or latitude and no time to (spot-)meter, then bracketing helps you to get the shot. If you can bracket 3 frames in 1/3rd of a second your chance to get a well exposed shot of a moment lasting 1/2 a second is greatly improved.
For some, this is a feature which helps them bringing food on the table, for other it isn't.
For discreet streetshooting this is not important, but turning off autobracketing is easyer than taking candids with a viewcamera, isnt' it?
NickTrop
Veteran
Socke, don't get all emotional. It's all in fun. We're "roasting" the new Canon. Now when it's obsolete in a couple years, or when those sophisticated chips melt in the hot sun whilst shooting lions in Africa with that long telephoto to put food on the table, sadly the Canon won't make for even a good paperweight. (Personally, I would use a $500 Panasonic FZ XX with a 12x optical zoom and a "Leica" lens on such occasions.)
Too big for that.
A dumbell for arm curls, perhaps?
Too big for that.
A dumbell for arm curls, perhaps?
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f6andBthere
Well-known
I have obviously taken a wrong turn somewhere ... can someone direct me to a forum where they discuss the issues that are relevent to the forum principals. I am very interested in the Leica M7 ... should I go to the DSLR site?
dexdog
Veteran
NickTrop said:
Come on, this is RFF, we should be roasting the M8! Except I think that the mods closed some threads last time this was tried...
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
Socke that is an insult.
Capa did not take shots of dangerous lionesses.
He only took images in wars so he was safe with a 50mm. Or at least not less safe than with a 35-350 zoom
Capa did not take shots of dangerous lionesses.
He only took images in wars so he was safe with a 50mm. Or at least not less safe than with a 35-350 zoom
Socke said:
thefsb
Established
Socke said:
didn't weegee snap some decent candids with a view camera?
MadMan2k
Well-known
Is it still a candid if you fire a huge, loud, bright bulb flash and blind the subjects as you take the picture?
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
Candid(e) and the optimism.
S
Socke
Guest
diagularax said:
M7 has an electronic shutter, that's as close to a dSLR as a M can get. So dpreview seems to be the right choice.
Eric T
Well-known
A Leica rangefinder simply isn't suitable for all situations. I take a lot of photos under fast action, low light conditions that require a fast telephoto lens. For this I use a Canon 400D (XTi) and a 70-200mm f/2.8 IS lens. The photos from this setup under these conditions cannot be matched by any Leica RF (analog or digital).
But for most everyday photos on the street or as a tourist, nothing beats the simplicity of my Leica IIIf. It forces me to think and compose the exposure properly. Under those circumstances, I never carry a meter. I estimate the best I
can with the sunny 16 rule.
So like most tasks in life, you need to choose the appropriate tool for the circumstances. I find that both dSLR and RF are important, complementary tools.
But for most everyday photos on the street or as a tourist, nothing beats the simplicity of my Leica IIIf. It forces me to think and compose the exposure properly. Under those circumstances, I never carry a meter. I estimate the best I
can with the sunny 16 rule.
So like most tasks in life, you need to choose the appropriate tool for the circumstances. I find that both dSLR and RF are important, complementary tools.