smudwhisk
Established
OK, this may well have been raised before, not sure, but I'd like a 6x9 folder but not sure which to get. Has to be cheap (I'd like a Fuji but cannot afford one and definately cannot justify the expenditure on it anyway) because it's likely to be only an occasional camera. Two I've been looking at are a Bessa I or a Moskva 5, anybody have any thoughts on them? I believe the Moskva 5 has a coupled rangefinder but the Bessa I only has a separate one that clips to the top of the camera. I've noticed a lot of Bessa I's on ebay, but few with the rangefinder available. Any comments appreciated. Thanks. 
R
Richard Black
Guest
If you don't need the integrated r/f the Voigtlander would be great, wonderful lens and all. I have the Moskva 5 and am quite pleased, but I also use an Agfa Isollette I with an attachable r/f that works too. Either will give you that huge negative.
P
pshinkaw
Guest
I have a pair of Moskva-5's. I seldom use them focused closer than infinity so I really don't use the rangefinders much. The 6X9 is a great landscape format and size. When I work closer I use the Iskra and do use the rangefinder.
It depends on how you plan to use them. I think the Voigtlander lenses are great!
-Paul
It depends on how you plan to use them. I think the Voigtlander lenses are great!
-Paul
smudwhisk
Established
Thanks guys. I'm really only looking at using it for wide landscapes or perhaps buildings. I suppose for the latter the r/f would be useful. I've an ETRSi and an SQA so close up doesn't really matter, just fany something with a wider negative. I've considered a 6x7 but it seems pointless having a 6x6 to get just a bit extra. I'm in two minds since you can get cheap Bessa I's on e*y without r/fs but if you want a complete one they are much more expensive and the Moskva 5's outside of the FSU don't appear that often. I know I could get one from the US but that will involve about 25% duty for anything costing above $30! Haven't seen any detachable r/fs sold separately either. Hhm, having to have a think about this.....
taffer
void
Interesting question. I had a Moskva-5 and ended selling it when I got a Bessa I (modern design type with chrome top plate) with a very nice Color-Skopar 105/3.5 for 40€ or so at a flea market.
Overall, the Bessa is in a whole different dimension and one notices it from the first moment. That said, the Moskva is an excellent camera and usually considerably cheaper than a nice-lens-powered Bessa.
The RF is nice, but the one on the Moskva is not to write about btw... You can always get an external one... and as with all folders, be sure to check the front panel for any play, it should lock firmly in place and stay there until unlocked.
Oscar
Overall, the Bessa is in a whole different dimension and one notices it from the first moment. That said, the Moskva is an excellent camera and usually considerably cheaper than a nice-lens-powered Bessa.
The RF is nice, but the one on the Moskva is not to write about btw... You can always get an external one... and as with all folders, be sure to check the front panel for any play, it should lock firmly in place and stay there until unlocked.
Oscar
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dazedgonebye
Veteran
External finders aren't hard to find. I have one in my desk drawer that I bought on inpulse.
Condition is the toughest thing with the folders. Buying a Moskva (or any folder) off of 'bay is a crap shoot. Mine came complete with light leaks and a problematic double exposure prevention system. It's now getting a $100 makeover from http://www.certo6.com.
If I were buying again, I'd ask around here for someone who had one of known condition, or buy one already reconditioned from certo6, or one of the few others out there that CLA before selling. The price is higher initially, but about the same if you buy a lemon and have to send it out.
Condition is the toughest thing with the folders. Buying a Moskva (or any folder) off of 'bay is a crap shoot. Mine came complete with light leaks and a problematic double exposure prevention system. It's now getting a $100 makeover from http://www.certo6.com.
If I were buying again, I'd ask around here for someone who had one of known condition, or buy one already reconditioned from certo6, or one of the few others out there that CLA before selling. The price is higher initially, but about the same if you buy a lemon and have to send it out.
planetjoe
Just some guy, you know?
Yet Another Option.
Yet Another Option.
I have a Moskva-5 which I obtained in trade on this forum, and I like it a great deal. I'm with pshinkaw in that I don't REALLY need to use the RF for the kind of subjects I shoot with it, though.
That said, I have done a little street-shooting, mostly with chromes; looking through a 6x9 Provia film image is like looking into an entire Technicolor world - very cool. In these cases, the RF is "mostly" accurate. Taffer's correct, in that you have to make sure your example is fairly rigid with no worn mechanisms.
All this RF stuff aside, I also own two scale-focused Kodak 6x9 folders, the Tourist and Tourist II. I can recommend the Tourist II, since it has the better lens/shutter assembly (goes to 1/800) and a nice, large VF with silvered-mirror optics. These are real beauties, and very robust. I find that, although I like the M-5 (and had been lusting after one for awhile), I find it a bid fiddly. As long as you can deal with the scale focus issues, the Tourists are no-brainers.
You could always get an external rangefinder for the Tourist, but I've found a catch: the accessory shoe is the wrong size, it would seem, for "modern" accessory RF feet - too narrow. I don't know if it's just my experience, but the accessory RF I bought off the 'bay (for a song, by the way) doesn't fit. Weird.
Hope I haven't made your decision any more difficult.
Cheers,
--joe.
Yet Another Option.
I have a Moskva-5 which I obtained in trade on this forum, and I like it a great deal. I'm with pshinkaw in that I don't REALLY need to use the RF for the kind of subjects I shoot with it, though.
That said, I have done a little street-shooting, mostly with chromes; looking through a 6x9 Provia film image is like looking into an entire Technicolor world - very cool. In these cases, the RF is "mostly" accurate. Taffer's correct, in that you have to make sure your example is fairly rigid with no worn mechanisms.
All this RF stuff aside, I also own two scale-focused Kodak 6x9 folders, the Tourist and Tourist II. I can recommend the Tourist II, since it has the better lens/shutter assembly (goes to 1/800) and a nice, large VF with silvered-mirror optics. These are real beauties, and very robust. I find that, although I like the M-5 (and had been lusting after one for awhile), I find it a bid fiddly. As long as you can deal with the scale focus issues, the Tourists are no-brainers.
You could always get an external rangefinder for the Tourist, but I've found a catch: the accessory shoe is the wrong size, it would seem, for "modern" accessory RF feet - too narrow. I don't know if it's just my experience, but the accessory RF I bought off the 'bay (for a song, by the way) doesn't fit. Weird.
Hope I haven't made your decision any more difficult.
Cheers,
--joe.
P
pshinkaw
Guest
I bought a Moskva-5 w/o lens just for parts so I would have a spare bellows and back.
If you want a 6X9 (for landscapes) and you need the portability of a folder, consider a Kodak Monitor Six-20. Although they are Six-20 film cameras, they are easily adapted to 120 rolls. The lenses are 4/3 front element focusing Tessar types (Kodak Anastigmat Specials) similar to the ones on Moskva's. They are well made and have bellows that seem to age well.
They have a weak design link in the body shutter release which can jam and then be bent by some overzealous shooters. As a result these "broken" models sell for less on e-Bay. These can be still be shot from the front or be easily repaired.
-Paul
If you want a 6X9 (for landscapes) and you need the portability of a folder, consider a Kodak Monitor Six-20. Although they are Six-20 film cameras, they are easily adapted to 120 rolls. The lenses are 4/3 front element focusing Tessar types (Kodak Anastigmat Specials) similar to the ones on Moskva's. They are well made and have bellows that seem to age well.
They have a weak design link in the body shutter release which can jam and then be bent by some overzealous shooters. As a result these "broken" models sell for less on e-Bay. These can be still be shot from the front or be easily repaired.
-Paul
planetjoe
Just some guy, you know?
Heh. Whoops.
Heh. Whoops.
Yeah, I probably should have mentioned that the Tourists take 620 film. I "roll my own" by threading 120 film onto 620 spools in a changing bag, but I admit it's not for everyone. I don't even notice anymore, though - that's why it slipped my mind.
--joe.
Heh. Whoops.
Yeah, I probably should have mentioned that the Tourists take 620 film. I "roll my own" by threading 120 film onto 620 spools in a changing bag, but I admit it's not for everyone. I don't even notice anymore, though - that's why it slipped my mind.
--joe.
Solinar
Analog Preferred
If you have a traditional wet darkroom, the larger 6x9 neg is pure heaven to print from. Scanning is different kettle of fish, as the files are huge.
I've had the Bessa I and have inspected a Moskva 5. Both had very small tunnel vision viewfinders. The Bessa I with the exception of its struts for the folding platform is a much simpler design with less to go wrong. As mentioned, the finish on the Voigtlander is superb. Both cameras are larger than they need to be in my opinion.
Good luck finding a Bessa I with a Skopar and a Synchro. You may have to settle for the easier to find Prontor / Skopar combination.
Personally, I'll stick with my two Agfa Records, a Record III and a Billy Record II. Both the Solinar and Apotar are more than enough lens for my use.
By the way, because of the viewfinder, I'd prefer the older Moskva 2 or an early Moskva 4 rather than the 5.
I've had the Bessa I and have inspected a Moskva 5. Both had very small tunnel vision viewfinders. The Bessa I with the exception of its struts for the folding platform is a much simpler design with less to go wrong. As mentioned, the finish on the Voigtlander is superb. Both cameras are larger than they need to be in my opinion.
Good luck finding a Bessa I with a Skopar and a Synchro. You may have to settle for the easier to find Prontor / Skopar combination.
Personally, I'll stick with my two Agfa Records, a Record III and a Billy Record II. Both the Solinar and Apotar are more than enough lens for my use.
By the way, because of the viewfinder, I'd prefer the older Moskva 2 or an early Moskva 4 rather than the 5.