pb908
Well-known
Just got nice bessa II last week, cla-ed by my self and now all is working fine. Rf is clean,infinity focus OK, shutter works, and smooth aperture/focus wheel. Then I put a roll if kodak film, well,this is the first time i had a problem loading 120 film. Bessa II use some kind of cover on the spool holder area, and the notch of the advance gear won't go in to the spool slot. Finally, after 15 minutes of struggling, I just understand that I need to PULL the advance wheel OUT (this will clear the spool area,hide the advance gear notch) so I can put my spool there. Then by turning the advance wheel, the notch will drop again and lock on the spool slot. This is not shown on user manual indeed !
then the shoot test began. During the test,advancing the film was getting harder and harder. At the end I got my thumb and pointing finger was pain from advancing. After frame no8, i need to a little bit "open" the back cover or else I can't go on.
This is weird,without film, the advance was smooth, all the film area is clean, the bars on the left/right area of exposure hole rotates freely, pressure plate is not that tight either, but then why i can't advance nicely?
When i check the film, i see no stratch on the backing paper, and the film wound in a nice order,so everythings look normal to me.
Now i already install the 2nd film, hopefully the problem gone somehow.
any idea why is this happening? Is this normal?
then the shoot test began. During the test,advancing the film was getting harder and harder. At the end I got my thumb and pointing finger was pain from advancing. After frame no8, i need to a little bit "open" the back cover or else I can't go on.
This is weird,without film, the advance was smooth, all the film area is clean, the bars on the left/right area of exposure hole rotates freely, pressure plate is not that tight either, but then why i can't advance nicely?
When i check the film, i see no stratch on the backing paper, and the film wound in a nice order,so everythings look normal to me.
Now i already install the 2nd film, hopefully the problem gone somehow.
any idea why is this happening? Is this normal?
Leigh Youdale
Well-known
You are aware, aren't you - (it's not clear from your description) - that the empty and full spools go into a swing-out holder on each side of the body? Pulling up on the advance knob allows the holder on that side to be swung out. The full spool side doesn't need to be released in the same way.
If you tried to put the spools in without swinging the holders out for easy access you may have bent something as they're light gauge sheet metal pressings. They should swing out and back in again quite easily.
If you tried to put the spools in without swinging the holders out for easy access you may have bent something as they're light gauge sheet metal pressings. They should swing out and back in again quite easily.
kuzano
Veteran
Common symptom of loading too loose
Common symptom of loading too loose
120 and particularly 220 film need to be tensioned very well across the film opening before closing the door. Not taking the slack out of the film before closing the door allows the film to stack up on the take up spool getting increasingly harder to advance. This is very common with MF film loaded too loosely from the start... particularly in a 6X9 format.
keep the film tight across the opening.. tension on the takeup winder and on the feed spool as closing the door.
And yes, there was a time when user manuals didn't address the issue, but when the larger rangefinder and other 120 cameras came out, like the Pentax 67, etc. The manuals started to talk about keeping tension on the film until the spool began loading.
Common symptom of loading too loose
120 and particularly 220 film need to be tensioned very well across the film opening before closing the door. Not taking the slack out of the film before closing the door allows the film to stack up on the take up spool getting increasingly harder to advance. This is very common with MF film loaded too loosely from the start... particularly in a 6X9 format.
keep the film tight across the opening.. tension on the takeup winder and on the feed spool as closing the door.
And yes, there was a time when user manuals didn't address the issue, but when the larger rangefinder and other 120 cameras came out, like the Pentax 67, etc. The manuals started to talk about keeping tension on the film until the spool began loading.
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Leigh Youdale
Well-known
pb908
Well-known
Well, mine has the craddles.
The 2nd roll has just been finished,and again it did the same. It getting harder & harder to wind the film.
i try to lift the back cover up slowly while try to wind the film, up to some point it get loose. i believe this happen on the left side of the spool area, i see 2 scratches on the back door where the spool rounding touch the back.
Regarding tightening the film on spool in the first time before closing the door, i did, that's why I can say at the end the film wound in a nice shape, tight and tidy. I still have 2 more test roll can be use, hopefully this problem solved before those runs out.
The 2nd roll has just been finished,and again it did the same. It getting harder & harder to wind the film.
i try to lift the back cover up slowly while try to wind the film, up to some point it get loose. i believe this happen on the left side of the spool area, i see 2 scratches on the back door where the spool rounding touch the back.
Regarding tightening the film on spool in the first time before closing the door, i did, that's why I can say at the end the film wound in a nice shape, tight and tidy. I still have 2 more test roll can be use, hopefully this problem solved before those runs out.
pb908
Well-known
You know what, i think I already found the problem.
googling "bessa ii problem", the 2nd thread listed by google on apug, show the same symptom. They said that the problem is happen due to the feeding spool is pulled during winding and make contact with back cover, make scratches on the back and that's where the restriction come to play.
Candle wax suppose to fix the problem
googling "bessa ii problem", the 2nd thread listed by google on apug, show the same symptom. They said that the problem is happen due to the feeding spool is pulled during winding and make contact with back cover, make scratches on the back and that's where the restriction come to play.
Candle wax suppose to fix the problem
Leigh Youdale
Well-known
Then I suspect something is not quite right with the pins that hold the spool in position - maybe bent or misaligned in some way, or not entering the end of the spool properly. It shouldn't move out of vertical alignment - just rotate. Wait for Chippy to respond - he knows a lot about these folders.
pb908
Well-known
There are no pins holding the film spool. The film move from left spool to right spool.
On the left, I have two thin metal plates on top and bottom and a cover plate (cradle) where the film spool will be. So there are no pins holding the spool always in center of the area. The thin metal plates is the one guarding spool move up & down. The cover/cradle has spring plate to hold the film from unrolled, but once the film getting thinner, there is chance that the spool can move (not up and down) closer to backdoor/metal bar area and get stuck there.
the right spool area is safer, still there is one thin metal on the botom, but it has a guide pin there, while on the top, the film advance notch takes care, so the right spool always centered, no problem.
the candle wax may be a temporary solution, but permanently i think the left spool need to be hold centered by pin mechanism.
On the left, I have two thin metal plates on top and bottom and a cover plate (cradle) where the film spool will be. So there are no pins holding the spool always in center of the area. The thin metal plates is the one guarding spool move up & down. The cover/cradle has spring plate to hold the film from unrolled, but once the film getting thinner, there is chance that the spool can move (not up and down) closer to backdoor/metal bar area and get stuck there.
the right spool area is safer, still there is one thin metal on the botom, but it has a guide pin there, while on the top, the film advance notch takes care, so the right spool always centered, no problem.
the candle wax may be a temporary solution, but permanently i think the left spool need to be hold centered by pin mechanism.
kuzano
Veteran
Yess.... it's happened to me
Yess.... it's happened to me
I always learn about these things by doing them. I've had big horizontal transport 120 film camera's bunch up on the takeup roll so tight that I could not finish a roll.... only take the roll out of the camera, losing it. Also, yes no 220 in old folders. Imagine trying to get through 16 exposures, if you can't make 8, even without the backing paper.
I load all MF cameras very patiently now and have not had a "bunching" mishap in a long time. Tension on both ends and close the door with your chin if need be.
Yess.... it's happened to me
I always learn about these things by doing them. I've had big horizontal transport 120 film camera's bunch up on the takeup roll so tight that I could not finish a roll.... only take the roll out of the camera, losing it. Also, yes no 220 in old folders. Imagine trying to get through 16 exposures, if you can't make 8, even without the backing paper.
I load all MF cameras very patiently now and have not had a "bunching" mishap in a long time. Tension on both ends and close the door with your chin if need be.
pb908
Well-known
wow, long read, but thanks chippy!
yes, I think the 2 small plate (sprung) pieces is not in the perfect condition, I believe by bending it over and adding a foam may fix the problem. I still feel that when I insert the film, it "snap" into position so lightly, but I didn't get it in the first time what part make the "snap" happen until I read your post, thanks a lot !!
unlucky that I just do the waxy thing and install my 3rd test roll, hopefully this roll ends soon so I can inspect and fix it permanently.
yes, I think the 2 small plate (sprung) pieces is not in the perfect condition, I believe by bending it over and adding a foam may fix the problem. I still feel that when I insert the film, it "snap" into position so lightly, but I didn't get it in the first time what part make the "snap" happen until I read your post, thanks a lot !!
unlucky that I just do the waxy thing and install my 3rd test roll, hopefully this roll ends soon so I can inspect and fix it permanently.