tritiated
Well-known
Dull 'need advice' thread coming up?
I am really interested in this camera, as equally innovative as it is classic in design. I've wanted to get into MF for a while - shots in this format really stand out and the ones I've seen from the Bessa III are no exception.
I nearly picked up a TLR on various occasions - backing out each time, now I wonder if it's worth piggy banking my money (fair bit of that!) for the Bessa III instead of dallying about with various (old) TLRs or folders etc.
The Bessa III seems to cover my specifications with aplomb, with those specifications in mind, can anyone recommend alternative MF solutions? I don't know alot about available MF kit really, but I know what I would like in a camera. As far as I can tell there are big compromises which come with reduced cost!
It's a big outlay, at £1897 from Robert White - I could pick up a R4M + a set of wide CV lenses from the same retailer. Or buy a *snore* car..
Anyone else having similar thoughts?
I am really interested in this camera, as equally innovative as it is classic in design. I've wanted to get into MF for a while - shots in this format really stand out and the ones I've seen from the Bessa III are no exception.
I nearly picked up a TLR on various occasions - backing out each time, now I wonder if it's worth piggy banking my money (fair bit of that!) for the Bessa III instead of dallying about with various (old) TLRs or folders etc.
The Bessa III seems to cover my specifications with aplomb, with those specifications in mind, can anyone recommend alternative MF solutions? I don't know alot about available MF kit really, but I know what I would like in a camera. As far as I can tell there are big compromises which come with reduced cost!
It's a big outlay, at £1897 from Robert White - I could pick up a R4M + a set of wide CV lenses from the same retailer. Or buy a *snore* car..
Anyone else having similar thoughts?
FA Limited
missing in action
i say pick up a cheap MF camera first to make sure you like it.
$200 is very cheap compared to $2000+
$200 is very cheap compared to $2000+
payasam
a.k.a. Mukul Dube
Agree. No doubt a good entry, but no doubt an expensive one also.
benlees
Well-known
A Mamiya 7 and the 80mm can be found for $700us. An older Fuji 670 can be had for the same or less. Not folders but good value for money!
TLR is by far the easiest on the wallet- with very good results.
TLR is by far the easiest on the wallet- with very good results.
kxl
Social Documentary
It's not clear what you want from an "entry" into medium format. Do you just want to work with larger negatives?
You have backed out of buying a TLR - why?
Do you specifically want to get a folder?
Find out first if you want an RF, folder, TLR, SLR, etc... and what size (645, 6x6 6x7 6x9), and then narrow down your choices...
It's your money, but IMHO, the Bessa 667 may not be for you at this time.
Buy a cheaper alternative for now, or better yet, rent a few different ones.
Here's the link to Calumet UK rentals.
http://www.calumetphoto.co.uk/rental
You have backed out of buying a TLR - why?
Do you specifically want to get a folder?
Find out first if you want an RF, folder, TLR, SLR, etc... and what size (645, 6x6 6x7 6x9), and then narrow down your choices...
It's your money, but IMHO, the Bessa 667 may not be for you at this time.
Buy a cheaper alternative for now, or better yet, rent a few different ones.
Here's the link to Calumet UK rentals.
http://www.calumetphoto.co.uk/rental
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tritiated
Well-known
Good idea, thanks for the advice - I hadn't thought of rentals.
I think from my experience with older, cheaper cameras en route to an R3A +lenses, I wonder what the point of experimenting with cheaper cameras was - since the R3A is proved far superior in all ways - much more enjoyable.
I guess the key to my interest is the large negatives, and secondly square format framing/composition. I would like a quiet, reliable, relatively lightweight set up - no mirrorslap, so options other than SLR seem like a good bet. Fixed lens is fine.
I think what I'm trying to say is that the III seems to be unmatched in it's little niche. From what I've read people love the image quality, form and function.
I'm not particularly impatient so I will look further into TLRs and rentals and ponder on. But it would be good to hear thoughts on the Bessa III from owners who are experienced in other MF kit. And general thoughts about MF too!
I think from my experience with older, cheaper cameras en route to an R3A +lenses, I wonder what the point of experimenting with cheaper cameras was - since the R3A is proved far superior in all ways - much more enjoyable.
I guess the key to my interest is the large negatives, and secondly square format framing/composition. I would like a quiet, reliable, relatively lightweight set up - no mirrorslap, so options other than SLR seem like a good bet. Fixed lens is fine.
I think what I'm trying to say is that the III seems to be unmatched in it's little niche. From what I've read people love the image quality, form and function.
I'm not particularly impatient so I will look further into TLRs and rentals and ponder on. But it would be good to hear thoughts on the Bessa III from owners who are experienced in other MF kit. And general thoughts about MF too!
kuzano
Veteran
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
A very nice GM670 just sold on eBay for $449.
Technical differences...
Not a folder
No metering
Upside with the GM670 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ saved
Equivalent IQ I would imagine.. fuji vs fuji
Couple of hundred for a good meter (learn to meter properly)
Rangefinder focus as good as it gets
Later models.... still well under a $1000 including up to the III series rangefinders GW670, GW690 and GW690.
I'm sorry, but $2500 is just far too much money in my estimation to "test" a new format. I've been using Fuji rangefinders in 645 and 690 for years now with frighteningly GOOD results on almost every one that I have purchased. I know that I have not spent over $900, and that was for a Like New In the Box GSW690 III with the 65mm wide angle lens.
I love the look of the 667, and was fully prepared to buy one until they came out $1000 over my MAXimum estimate of what the camera would be worth. Honestly, I don't understand where the other $1000 comes in.
I'll stick with the standard Fuji rangefinders or my Mamiya's.
For that kind of money, you could get into a Mamiya 7 and 2 or 3 lenses by shopping judiciously. I still favor the Fuji normal rangefinders however.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
A very nice GM670 just sold on eBay for $449.
Technical differences...
Not a folder
No metering
Upside with the GM670 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ saved
Equivalent IQ I would imagine.. fuji vs fuji
Couple of hundred for a good meter (learn to meter properly)
Rangefinder focus as good as it gets
Later models.... still well under a $1000 including up to the III series rangefinders GW670, GW690 and GW690.
I'm sorry, but $2500 is just far too much money in my estimation to "test" a new format. I've been using Fuji rangefinders in 645 and 690 for years now with frighteningly GOOD results on almost every one that I have purchased. I know that I have not spent over $900, and that was for a Like New In the Box GSW690 III with the 65mm wide angle lens.
I love the look of the 667, and was fully prepared to buy one until they came out $1000 over my MAXimum estimate of what the camera would be worth. Honestly, I don't understand where the other $1000 comes in.
I'll stick with the standard Fuji rangefinders or my Mamiya's.
For that kind of money, you could get into a Mamiya 7 and 2 or 3 lenses by shopping judiciously. I still favor the Fuji normal rangefinders however.
Jamie123
Veteran
Yeah, the Bessa III might be a bit too expensive for a starter unless money is no issue.
I understand your feelings about not wanting to spend money on all sorts of cheap cameras just to find out that you could've just aswell spent the full amount at the beginning and gotten what you really wanted.
What I suggest is that you start by getting something moderately priced but with good quality. A good TLR might be a nice start if you like the square. Get something good enough so that you don't feel that the quality of your pictures is limited by the quality of the camera. After you have used this camera for a while you will have a pretty good idea about what you want in a medium format camera and if this format is really for you.
By the way, I have just ordered a Bessa III today which will replace my Hasselblad. I have used the Hasselblad exclusively for 3 years and have decided that I need something more portable. Also, while at first being quite fond of the square format at first, I have now started to get a bit fed up by it.
I understand your feelings about not wanting to spend money on all sorts of cheap cameras just to find out that you could've just aswell spent the full amount at the beginning and gotten what you really wanted.
What I suggest is that you start by getting something moderately priced but with good quality. A good TLR might be a nice start if you like the square. Get something good enough so that you don't feel that the quality of your pictures is limited by the quality of the camera. After you have used this camera for a while you will have a pretty good idea about what you want in a medium format camera and if this format is really for you.
By the way, I have just ordered a Bessa III today which will replace my Hasselblad. I have used the Hasselblad exclusively for 3 years and have decided that I need something more portable. Also, while at first being quite fond of the square format at first, I have now started to get a bit fed up by it.
Vickko
Veteran
Consider the ergonomics of MF shooting. If you are used to RF and SLR, where the action is to bring the camera up to your eye, and shoot, then the Bessa III will seem very familiar.
But if go to Rollei or Hasselblad, you will need to be adept enough to change your style to "look down on a Waist level finder" and frame and shoot. It always takes me a little bit to adjust, especially the Left Right reversal. But once adjusted, I'm fine. And, I find that I need to adjust back.
The beauty now, of going Hasselblad and Rolleiflex, is that the prices are phenomenally good. Well, relatively, a mint 2.8F is still pricey. But not like before (i.e. years ago).
The Bessa III, IMHO, is still too pricey. I love my Hasselblad and Rolleiflexes, and they are my favourite MF cameras. And, a Bessa II if I want to shoot 6x9.
And whenever I shoot MF, returning to 35mm seems like "using toys, to do a serious job".
Vick
But if go to Rollei or Hasselblad, you will need to be adept enough to change your style to "look down on a Waist level finder" and frame and shoot. It always takes me a little bit to adjust, especially the Left Right reversal. But once adjusted, I'm fine. And, I find that I need to adjust back.
The beauty now, of going Hasselblad and Rolleiflex, is that the prices are phenomenally good. Well, relatively, a mint 2.8F is still pricey. But not like before (i.e. years ago).
The Bessa III, IMHO, is still too pricey. I love my Hasselblad and Rolleiflexes, and they are my favourite MF cameras. And, a Bessa II if I want to shoot 6x9.
And whenever I shoot MF, returning to 35mm seems like "using toys, to do a serious job".
Vick
dougi
Established
Have a look at what's secondhand at Mainlinephoto in Oz at the moment. A choice of three MFs, inlcuding a Fuji 645 folder. Not 6x6/7 like the Bessa, but entry level cheap at A$575.
Paddy C
Unused film collector
As others have mentioned there are some good alternatives out there.
A Mamiya 7II plus a lens (for less). The Fuji rangefinders (fixed lens). The price of Hasselblad stuff these days is almost scandalous. Various TLRs.
The upside of these options is that you could expect to buy them at a reasonable price and sell them for exactly the same money should you find you don't like them. If you like rangefinders do not buy a TLR. Apples and oranges IMO.
A Mamiya 7II plus a lens (for less). The Fuji rangefinders (fixed lens). The price of Hasselblad stuff these days is almost scandalous. Various TLRs.
The upside of these options is that you could expect to buy them at a reasonable price and sell them for exactly the same money should you find you don't like them. If you like rangefinders do not buy a TLR. Apples and oranges IMO.
BillBingham2
Registered User
From everything I've seen the Bessa III is a stellar camera. But it's on the high side of what I would prefer to pay even if I was in the same place I was say three years ago.
There's been some Rollis in the classified for way south of that. I've always lusted after a GS645 from Fuji and you can find a great one, have it cleaned and get a great small meter for well under the price of a Bessa III.
B2 (;->
There's been some Rollis in the classified for way south of that. I've always lusted after a GS645 from Fuji and you can find a great one, have it cleaned and get a great small meter for well under the price of a Bessa III.
B2 (;->
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
The Bessa 667 is a nice camera but for the asking price you can get a lot of other MF gear and the larger format requires a type of dedication beyond 35mm shooting IMO.
Not good to spend that sort of money to discover a few months down the track MF is not for you and then have to take a bath when you resell a new camera on the used market.
Not good to spend that sort of money to discover a few months down the track MF is not for you and then have to take a bath when you resell a new camera on the used market.
aizan
Veteran
what keith said.
three painless ways to get into medium format:
fuji ga645
pentax 645
pentax 67 (w/ttl prism)
all cost $500 or less and have an eye-level viewfinder and built-in meter.
three painless ways to get into medium format:
fuji ga645
pentax 645
pentax 67 (w/ttl prism)
all cost $500 or less and have an eye-level viewfinder and built-in meter.
Ernst Dinkla
Well-known
Not similar, I have been on that path longer but what I miss in your request and the replies is what your workflow will be after the film is developed.
Do you intend to print the "analogue" way, darkroom etc or scan the film afterwards? The last will ask for expensive scanners if you want to fully exploit the MF film area + quality for large prints. If a cheaper scanner (Epson V700 for example) has to be compensated on quality/resolution you might prefer the largest MF frame size you can lay your hands on.
One of the Fuji 6x9's or what is left of quality 6x9's folders may be a good choice then. In my opinion the Bessa III should/will deliver more quality in its takes than a V700/750 will extract from them. With the rumors of Nikon pulling out of the MF scanner market and Imacon pricing its range in Hasselblad tradition you may have to think first of how to deal with the end of the process.
Im using a V700 + a Nikon 8000 with wetmounting of the film on both.
met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla
Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
a 2000 pound camera is NOT an ENTRY to medium format.
OTOH if you can afford it, and really really wanna try MF, why not.
OTOH if you can afford it, and really really wanna try MF, why not.
W
Way
Guest
I really enjoy my Bessa III very much but if you are just testing the MF waters it's best to go with something that's cheaper. I think an old folder or TLR would be an inexpensive way to do it. My Agfa Super Isolette 6x6 folder is fantastic: coupled rangefinder, frame counter and well made. There are certainly others that are great too. There was an Ansco Super Speedex (?) in the classifieds a week ago that would've been a nice catch. Be aware that old folders need care so shop carefully. As for TLRs, I like the Mamiya C330. I know it's larger than other TLRs but it's solidly made and very reliable. Pluses include interchangeable lenses, belows for close up photograpy, inexpensive. Another 6x6 I love is my Mamiya 6. The lens collapses into the body for a pretty compact package. The lenses are wonderful and the shutter is very quiet. It is more expensive than the other options I mentioned.
I've only mentioned cameras I own and use so of course there are many other options out there. I agree with first deciding what form (TLR, folder, rangefinder, etc.) you would like, then start your searching from there. Good luck!
I've only mentioned cameras I own and use so of course there are many other options out there. I agree with first deciding what form (TLR, folder, rangefinder, etc.) you would like, then start your searching from there. Good luck!