Matus
Well-known
Relax - I am just starting an innocent poll here [but let me remind you that I also started the poll on wide angle Bessa III less than a year before its introduction .. 
]
Ok - knowing what Fuji/Voigtlander are capable of and approximately for how much - what would be your choice for Bessa IV ?
- 6x9 or 6x12 ? And what lens?
- Of course the camera would have the AE, coupled nice rangefinder and such.The lens would be fixed of course.
- The camera would be FOLDING (should compare to Bessa III 80/3.5 thickness-wise)
*****
So - make your choice and tell us why. I am not asking about your opinion on feasibility of such camera - just your preference.
*****
Please not I do not dare to guess possible lens speed as that is beyond my knowledge and I do not want to give you false hopes for wide and fast lenses
______
I came to this as I started to look for viable compact 6x12 cameras and there are simply none. Polaroid 110 & 900 conversions are hard to call compact ... And event the 6x9 cameras are either large [Fuji GW/GSW] or rather old and only with "normal" lenses
]Ok - knowing what Fuji/Voigtlander are capable of and approximately for how much - what would be your choice for Bessa IV ?
- 6x9 or 6x12 ? And what lens?
- Of course the camera would have the AE, coupled nice rangefinder and such.The lens would be fixed of course.
- The camera would be FOLDING (should compare to Bessa III 80/3.5 thickness-wise)
*****
So - make your choice and tell us why. I am not asking about your opinion on feasibility of such camera - just your preference.
*****
Please not I do not dare to guess possible lens speed as that is beyond my knowledge and I do not want to give you false hopes for wide and fast lenses
______
I came to this as I started to look for viable compact 6x12 cameras and there are simply none. Polaroid 110 & 900 conversions are hard to call compact ... And event the 6x9 cameras are either large [Fuji GW/GSW] or rather old and only with "normal" lenses
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Roger Hicks
Veteran
Yeah, right. A whole new body. And why folding? Inherently more difficulty in maintaning parallelism, and no need anyway when dealing with a wide-angle lens. Likewise, not much need for a coupled RF with a wide-angle.
I know you didn't want to hear about the feasibility, but then again, there's no point in speculating on pure fantasy. Also, what do you mean by 'viable' (the normal definitions are 'capable of growing to maturity' or 'capable of reproducing itself')? Do you mean 'cheap'? 'Cos if you don't, and if you can do without the RF, options (new and used) include Linhof, Horseman and a couple of Chinese makers.
Cheers,
R.
I know you didn't want to hear about the feasibility, but then again, there's no point in speculating on pure fantasy. Also, what do you mean by 'viable' (the normal definitions are 'capable of growing to maturity' or 'capable of reproducing itself')? Do you mean 'cheap'? 'Cos if you don't, and if you can do without the RF, options (new and used) include Linhof, Horseman and a couple of Chinese makers.
Cheers,
R.
Matus
Well-known
Roger, the "viable" was not the best word, sorry (I did not mean cheap). I mean simply some reasonably compact camera. All those scale focus professional cameras one can buy today are designed around the idea of using one body and multiple lenses. The cameras are rather bulky, large and heavy. There was a 6x9 RF in the past - the Fujica G690 and it indeed proved that the camera is hard to make light or compact that way. I would rather see something that reminding of the new/old bessas just in 6x12 format ...
chris00nj
Young Luddite
A folding 6x12 would be cool and unique. You could easily take medium format panoramic while traveling. I'm not sure of the focal length, but I think a 28-35mm equivalent would be the best. I think it would be around 95-105mm, but not sure.
There are a lot of 6x9 folders in existence, but all have "normal" lenses. Producing a 6x9 with a normal lens, means Voigtlander is competing with a vast used market. The other option is a 6x9 with a 24mm lens equivalent.
There are a lot of 6x9 folders in existence, but all have "normal" lenses. Producing a 6x9 with a normal lens, means Voigtlander is competing with a vast used market. The other option is a 6x9 with a 24mm lens equivalent.
ChrisN
Striving
6x12 please, and wide; make mine a 65mm or perhaps a 75mm. Why? I like the perspective and the ratio, and the shorter lens helps keep the whole camera more compact. I'm interested in the Dayi 612 (ebay #270646219043) but the design is so clunky. Surely it is possible for someone to come up with a more elegant implementation.
Frank Petronio
Well-known
When I win the Lottery the Linhof 6x12 is at the top of my list. A Bessa/Fuji/VC 6x12 would be awesome. Like Chris, I like the sound of the Dayi and other Chinese knock-offs but they just look a bit crude.
On eBay I saw a Chinese knock-off of an Alpa. It had the proper high-end Schneider lens and a very similar design but you could see gaps in the wooden grips and other flaws. They still wanted $$$$, just not $$$$$$$$$ Alpa money.
On eBay I saw a Chinese knock-off of an Alpa. It had the proper high-end Schneider lens and a very similar design but you could see gaps in the wooden grips and other flaws. They still wanted $$$$, just not $$$$$$$$$ Alpa money.
chris00nj
Young Luddite
Good point.
I was able to figure out a few 35mm equivalencies. I can't only think in terms of 35mm.
612 = 35mm equivalent
120mm = 52mm
80mm = 26mm
58mm = 18mm
Frank Petronio
Well-known
Think in terms of the vertical, an 80mm lens is "normal" on 6cm tall 120 film. This is just twice as wide as a 6x6 negative. So while a 80mm lens on 6x12 maybe get as wide as a 24mm lens on a normal 35mm camera - the height will be nice and normal, like a 50mm lens on a normal 35mm camera. People standing in the frame won't look distorted.
kuzano
Veteran
To anticipate this from Fuji, think about this.???
To anticipate this from Fuji, think about this.???
At 6X12, Fuji potentially has that panorama covered. Their excellent offering of the GX 617 could simply be masked down to 6X12. To me, that infers that they would not develop a competing product in their line. Furthermore, they have an excellent and for it's format, not too heavy, solution in 6X9.
That is the GW690 and GSW690. Not nearly as heavy as the original G690, they also cover a frame format and focal length that I think would preclude any offering from Fuji in 6X9.
If you've not held the last model GW690, I doubt that Fuji or any other MFR could come up with a lighter or smaller 6X9. The glass is superb and the shutter is robust.
Yes, it lacks a meter, but is therefore not dependent on batteries. I still use the "Texas Leica" original G690, which may be heavy, but offers me a slightly extended 100mm lens and the 65mm lens for a one body/2 lens solution. That setup is lighter than carrying two of the later 6X9's, the GW and GSW for two bodies with fixed lenses.
Sorry, but I think your fantasy cameras have been well covered by Fuji in the past, with hardy cameras that last a long time, and are quite plentiful used.
PS. It's quite naive of you to ask for preferences without feasability studies and justifications. Here at RFF, we simply do not work that way. You can't stifle the creative minds on this forum.
To anticipate this from Fuji, think about this.???
At 6X12, Fuji potentially has that panorama covered. Their excellent offering of the GX 617 could simply be masked down to 6X12. To me, that infers that they would not develop a competing product in their line. Furthermore, they have an excellent and for it's format, not too heavy, solution in 6X9.
That is the GW690 and GSW690. Not nearly as heavy as the original G690, they also cover a frame format and focal length that I think would preclude any offering from Fuji in 6X9.
If you've not held the last model GW690, I doubt that Fuji or any other MFR could come up with a lighter or smaller 6X9. The glass is superb and the shutter is robust.
Yes, it lacks a meter, but is therefore not dependent on batteries. I still use the "Texas Leica" original G690, which may be heavy, but offers me a slightly extended 100mm lens and the 65mm lens for a one body/2 lens solution. That setup is lighter than carrying two of the later 6X9's, the GW and GSW for two bodies with fixed lenses.
Sorry, but I think your fantasy cameras have been well covered by Fuji in the past, with hardy cameras that last a long time, and are quite plentiful used.
PS. It's quite naive of you to ask for preferences without feasability studies and justifications. Here at RFF, we simply do not work that way. You can't stifle the creative minds on this forum.
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ChrisN
Striving
As Frank noted, in 6x12 there's the Linhof; and also the Horseman, Dayi, Gaoersi and Fotoman offerings, at various quality, capability and price levels. And as nice as it is, the GSW690 will not give me the perspective that a 65mm lens on a 6x12 will give.
So in the meantime it's back to making do with a wide lens on the dSLR, and cropping to 2:1. And dreaming of doing this with film.
So in the meantime it's back to making do with a wide lens on the dSLR, and cropping to 2:1.
And dreaming of doing this with film.
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sevo
Fokutorendaburando
... and Fuji was one of the pioneers and long time market leader in the 6x17 format. It is not entirely unlikely that they might issue another one - indeed I'd consider a 6x17 from them more likely than a 6x12.
Sevo
ruby.monkey
Veteran
Personally I'd like the equivalent of a GSW690 with a built-in spot/matrix meter and added aperture-priority autoexposure.
But I can survive without it.
But I can survive without it.
Pablito
coco frío
6x8
Very pleasing proportions, very few cameras have been made that use this format.
Very pleasing proportions, very few cameras have been made that use this format.
kuzano
Veteran
Interesting you should mention 6X8 format...
Interesting you should mention 6X8 format...
I didn't notice this previously in this thread, so don't know if this has been mentioned.
Fuji made both the GW680 and GSW680 in 6X8 for the home market (Japan). I think they made them in the II and III versions. You can find them quite readily from Japanese sellers on eBay. Occasionally they come up as selling in the US, as some of them made it across the Pacific by private sale to tourists. I don't think any camera dealers shipped them to the US.
I've seen them often on eBay.
Interesting you should mention 6X8 format...
I didn't notice this previously in this thread, so don't know if this has been mentioned.
Fuji made both the GW680 and GSW680 in 6X8 for the home market (Japan). I think they made them in the II and III versions. You can find them quite readily from Japanese sellers on eBay. Occasionally they come up as selling in the US, as some of them made it across the Pacific by private sale to tourists. I don't think any camera dealers shipped them to the US.
I've seen them often on eBay.
Matus
Well-known
I should have stated this explicitly in the wish list above - there would be of course not reason why a 6x12 camera could not provide 6x9 (or even 6x8) images just like the current Bessas do 6x6/6x7
Yes - there are the meter-less GW/GSW Fuji cameras, but because of the fixed lens are rather bulky. And AE is such a nice thing ...
Yes - there are the meter-less GW/GSW Fuji cameras, but because of the fixed lens are rather bulky. And AE is such a nice thing ...
tonal1
Established
6x10
6x10
I voted for 6X9 w/ 80mm, but I really want a 6x10.
In my experience, lolly-tong folders end with heartbreak anyways. I'd opt for a Fuji GW690 II and save the extra $1500 for film.
6x10
I voted for 6X9 w/ 80mm, but I really want a 6x10.
In my experience, lolly-tong folders end with heartbreak anyways. I'd opt for a Fuji GW690 II and save the extra $1500 for film.
tonal1
Established
Are you a fan of 645 then?
Same proportions.... [I've got a real weak spot for the Bronica RF645...]
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healyzh
Well-known
I'd rather spend the money on a lens or two for my 4x5 Horseman, I already have the 6x9 back for it. A dedicated camera with fixed lens is a little too specialized for my taste. Though if I were to get one, it would have to be *wide*.
W
wlewisiii
Guest
6x6 with a 80/3.5 Tessar
Not that I can afford any of them, mind but since you ask, that's what I'd want if I won the lotto.
William
Not that I can afford any of them, mind but since you ask, that's what I'd want if I won the lotto.
William
