alwinvrm
Member
What are the quality differences between the R2 and the later RxA models? I may have an opportunity to buy a cosmetically excellent R2. But I wonder how it compares in quality with the R2A or the R4A which are on my shortlist as well.
In the forums there seems a consensus that the R2 is much better built than the first R containing more metal parts, feeling better, etc. Another sentence I read often is that the quality of the Bessa line keeps on improving with every new model. Would that mean that some design flaws in the R 2/3 M/A were improved in the R4 A/M and also that the R2 is a lesser camera than the R 2/3 A/M?
I read every thread I could find. In terms of reliability I seem to have read mostly about blocking shutters in the R2/3 A models and R2 as well and rangefinders too easily knocked out of alignment, although admittedly I did not keep statistics as I read. I read about the odd broken rewind button as well, but no pattern there it seems.
What are your experiences with reliability comparing the R2 and later models and among the later models? What are the technical improvements you know about for a fact in the models following the R2? Or maybe on the contrary is the R2 shutter known to be more reliable than the later models?
Thanking you for your help, Alwin
In the forums there seems a consensus that the R2 is much better built than the first R containing more metal parts, feeling better, etc. Another sentence I read often is that the quality of the Bessa line keeps on improving with every new model. Would that mean that some design flaws in the R 2/3 M/A were improved in the R4 A/M and also that the R2 is a lesser camera than the R 2/3 A/M?
I read every thread I could find. In terms of reliability I seem to have read mostly about blocking shutters in the R2/3 A models and R2 as well and rangefinders too easily knocked out of alignment, although admittedly I did not keep statistics as I read. I read about the odd broken rewind button as well, but no pattern there it seems.
What are your experiences with reliability comparing the R2 and later models and among the later models? What are the technical improvements you know about for a fact in the models following the R2? Or maybe on the contrary is the R2 shutter known to be more reliable than the later models?
Thanking you for your help, Alwin
alwinvrm
Member
I will give you here my finds, while I still would be very interested to hear your practical experiences. Herewith the statistics. I entered the search term Bessa R2 together with respectively repair, break, reliability, longevity, and problem. This what I got on the first 3 google pages.
R3A; 3 shutter problems reported. Funny that one user (Luke) had 2 broken camera's, serious case of bad luck? 1 RF problem reported. There was far more praise for either Bessa model in the same pages.
I doubt that from these findings would follow that the R2 is more reliable than the R3A, in view of Voigtlander's reported continuous improvement of the models. Your feed back would be appreciated.
R3A; 3 shutter problems reported. Funny that one user (Luke) had 2 broken camera's, serious case of bad luck? 1 RF problem reported. There was far more praise for either Bessa model in the same pages.
I doubt that from these findings would follow that the R2 is more reliable than the R3A, in view of Voigtlander's reported continuous improvement of the models. Your feed back would be appreciated.
Rhoyle
Well-known
I've got a Rollei 35RF, which has the same guts as an R2. No problems at all to report. Very reliable.
Pickett Wilson
Veteran
I've owned both the R2 and R2A. No problems with either. Actually prefered the R2, as it is a little lighter.
oscroft
Veteran
I've no experience of the original R2, but I have both R3A and R4A and to me they feel pretty much identical in terms of build quality.
And they both feel significantly more solid and chunky than the original R and L that I had (not that I had any problems with either of those).
And they both feel significantly more solid and chunky than the original R and L that I had (not that I had any problems with either of those).
kshapero
South Florida Man
Owned both R3A and R3M. Both little tanks. No problems. Wish I still owned them.
mdspace
Established
I own a R2 and R2M, no problem with them.
I actually consider the R2M a little better quality. For some reason CV changed the body and now all the models have the same body (R2M, R3M, R4M, R2A, R3A, R4A). I think there was a problem with the film rewinder lever in the R and the R2.
I actually consider the R2M a little better quality. For some reason CV changed the body and now all the models have the same body (R2M, R3M, R4M, R2A, R3A, R4A). I think there was a problem with the film rewinder lever in the R and the R2.
oscroft
Veteran
Actually, I think there was a problem with the film advance - if you were using a slow shutter speed, and were trying to shoot fast and wound too quickly, it could jam the shutter.
alwinvrm
Member
This is the 3rd time (2 different users) I read a negative comment about a Bessa R where a user exeperiences a problem with a second camera as well. Could be very bad luck or maybe there is something you should not do with these cameras. Anybody any ideas about "don'ts" for the shutters in Bessa's? One I read was that you should not begin the transport/tensioning cycle before the shutter is fully finished with the exposure.
July 24th, 2009 at 2:55 pm 12
luketrash Says:
It’d cost me 175 dollars to have it looked at by his repair people. I had contacted him a year ago when it started happening. My R2A I replaced this camera with is already overlapping frames on me. I don’t have a lot of faith in these cameras even though they are nice to use when they are working correctly.
July 24th, 2009 at 2:55 pm 12
luketrash Says:
It’d cost me 175 dollars to have it looked at by his repair people. I had contacted him a year ago when it started happening. My R2A I replaced this camera with is already overlapping frames on me. I don’t have a lot of faith in these cameras even though they are nice to use when they are working correctly.
alwinvrm
Member
The Bessa's Copal shutter allegedly has a life span of 50,000 cycles whereas Nikon F's are rated for 150.000 cycles and Leica's even more.
If you shoot one roll a week the Copal shutter would last 28 years, with one roll a day 4 years. I think I can live with that.
I know this is not a revelation but just a confirmation that the Bessa is herewith in the league of cameras for the serious amateur like the Nikon F90. The Bessa's price would reflect this as well. While this positions the Bessa relative to other brands / types it still does not say much about how Bessa's compare among each other.
I see more clips / posts about Bessa A type shutter problems while I do not remeber having seen reports of Bessa M type shutter problems.
I do realize that one Copal is maybe not the other and that other factors may influence reliability and a shutter's life span. Is there for example any difference in the shutter construction between the Bessa A and M models? I am not a technician and grabbbed some data from the internet that I quote below this mail for your reference. I may be very wrong in the assumptions I made and would be very happy to receive any feedback or ideas you may have.
I do also realize that Leica's and Nikon F's may break down after a week, everything can break. One thing is however more likely to break sooner than the other.
"The Nikon Professional cameras were made to go 150,000 cycles before requiring service. The Copal Square cameras were made to withstand 50,000."
" -consider a Leica M6. The antiquated Leica shutter, which is relatively so huge that it occupies most of the body cavity, has poor accuracy compared to a Nikon shutter and only so-so precision. (Of course we're talking about inaccuracies of fractions of stops, which doesn't have much visual effect on results.) But the M shutter is so over built and under stressed that it's fully capable of going 400,000 cycles, and, according to the company, in many cases doesn't even begin to show wear until 100,000 cycles. "
If you shoot one roll a week the Copal shutter would last 28 years, with one roll a day 4 years. I think I can live with that.
I know this is not a revelation but just a confirmation that the Bessa is herewith in the league of cameras for the serious amateur like the Nikon F90. The Bessa's price would reflect this as well. While this positions the Bessa relative to other brands / types it still does not say much about how Bessa's compare among each other.
I see more clips / posts about Bessa A type shutter problems while I do not remeber having seen reports of Bessa M type shutter problems.
I do realize that one Copal is maybe not the other and that other factors may influence reliability and a shutter's life span. Is there for example any difference in the shutter construction between the Bessa A and M models? I am not a technician and grabbbed some data from the internet that I quote below this mail for your reference. I may be very wrong in the assumptions I made and would be very happy to receive any feedback or ideas you may have.
I do also realize that Leica's and Nikon F's may break down after a week, everything can break. One thing is however more likely to break sooner than the other.
"The Nikon Professional cameras were made to go 150,000 cycles before requiring service. The Copal Square cameras were made to withstand 50,000."
" -consider a Leica M6. The antiquated Leica shutter, which is relatively so huge that it occupies most of the body cavity, has poor accuracy compared to a Nikon shutter and only so-so precision. (Of course we're talking about inaccuracies of fractions of stops, which doesn't have much visual effect on results.) But the M shutter is so over built and under stressed that it's fully capable of going 400,000 cycles, and, according to the company, in many cases doesn't even begin to show wear until 100,000 cycles. "
Spider67
Well-known
I had the same problem with my R and R2: Out of a sudden it's difficuld to wind the film or even impossible. With the R2 I had to cycle twice before I could press the shutter release and also had several exposures on one negative. The remedy in both cases was simple: Rewind the film, put in a new one and suddenly it works. I just remember a post mentioning that something right below the floorplate had to be pushed in place.
With my R the rewind button did not come back once, so I had to remove the floorplate and and pull it gently up with a tweezer. So there seems to be something with the filmtransport...at least with my cameras.
I am not so sure if the R2 is really wholly made out of metal, as I see the same milky white there were the use of previous owners has chipped the olive paint.
I like the design of the R, R2 more than that of the R2X/R3/R4 the latter ones remind me toomuch of a Zorki 4.
With my R the rewind button did not come back once, so I had to remove the floorplate and and pull it gently up with a tweezer. So there seems to be something with the filmtransport...at least with my cameras.
I am not so sure if the R2 is really wholly made out of metal, as I see the same milky white there were the use of previous owners has chipped the olive paint.
I like the design of the R, R2 more than that of the R2X/R3/R4 the latter ones remind me toomuch of a Zorki 4.