Bessa R2A -- Trouble Advancing Film -- Rewind Fork Problem?

[Brian Puccio]

Got my Bessa R2A used and I've run about a dozen rolls through it. At first, I thought it was because I haven't really used a film camera being one of those younger, digital people. But I'm fairly confident I'm doing everything right and that this may be a glitch with the camera.

I load the film in according to the instructions (you can find a copy here) and have no problem for the first few frames. But after that, I get stuck trying to advance the film. I notice that parts 13, 14 and 15 in the instructions (rewind film shaft, crank and knob) are trying to rotate, but they cannot because the knob it hitting against the body.

I can do one of two things at this point. I can either flip up the rewind crank and let it stay up so the entire thing is free to move, or I can flip up the rewind crank, turn it in the opposite direction as required to rewind the film and then flip it back down. The second option lets me shoot for several more frames before getting stuck again.

Is it possible that while shooting and the film is advancing out of the canister, that the rewind fork (part 28) should be allowed to spin freely? And that it should only be coupled with parts 13, 14 and 15 when rewinding, thus eliminating this problem? If so, what could I do to fix this problem.

Thanks!

 

[EliasK]

Is it possible that while shooting and the film is advancing out of the canister, that the rewind fork (part 28) should be allowed to spin freely? And that it should only be coupled with parts 13, 14 and 15 when rewinding, thus eliminating this problem? If so, what could I do to fix this problem.

Thanks!

The rewind fork and the knob should always turn when you advance to next frame. Actually you should check this for the first few shots to be sure that the film was loaded properly.

Open the back, turn the rewind crank/knob and check if the rewing fork shaft is bend, or loose in its housing. Check also if the rewind crank is bend/broken/loose. If any of these happens, you should have the camera repaired.

 

[Brian Puccio]

The rewind fork and the knob should always turn when you advance to next frame. Actually you should check this for the first few shots to be sure that the film was loaded properly.

So this is normal? I should expect to have to turn it several times every few frames to give it enough internal slack for the film advance? That doesn't seem right. My M6 doesn't require this. Is this one of those "well, you get what you pay for things"? If this is normal, then I'll just sell this body, it's too annoying to have to do this.

Open the back, turn the rewind crank/knob and check if the rewing fork shaft is bend, or loose in its housing. Check also if the rewind crank is bend/broken/loose. If any of these happens, you should have the camera repaired.

I checked the inside and everything looks fine.

Thanks for your help, I'll take some pictures of the camera tonight and post it for sale here.

 

[EliasK]

I should expect to have to turn it several times every few frames to give it enough internal slack for the film advance?

No, you should not have to do that. You camera has a problem if the crank touches the body. Better have it checked by a camera technician.

 

[wolfpeterson]

But after that, I get stuck trying to advance the film. I notice that parts 13, 14 and 15 in the instructions (rewind film shaft, crank and knob) are trying to rotate, but they cannot because the knob it hitting against the body.

This is not normal, the knob should be able to spin freely without catching on the body. Before posting photos to sell it, you should post photos of how the knob gets stuck against the body so the problem can be resolved!😉

Maybe your rewind crank doesn't hide completely inside the knob?

 

[gliderbee]

I notice that parts 13, 14 and 15 in the instructions (rewind film shaft, crank and knob) are trying to rotate, but they cannot because the knob it hitting against the body.

I really would like to see a picture of this. I can't imagine how that round rewind knob can hit the body; that would mean it's not seated straight in the body or, more probably, that the little knob at the end of the crank is not seated properly in the big knob.
Does it look like the pictures below when unfolded and folded ?

unfolded:

folded down:

 

[Brian Puccio]

I really would like to see a picture of this. I can't imagine how that round rewind knob can hit the body; that would mean it's not seated straight in the body or, more probably, that the little knob at the end of the crank is not seated properly in the big knob.
Does it look like the pictures below when unfolded and folded ?

unfolded:

folded down:

Not at all, it sticks out quite a bit! This is my problem. When I get home tonight I will see what I can do to unbend it and get it to go in out of the way. If not, I'll post an image or video clip of my problem.

Thank you all for your help.

 

[Clovis]

Only newer R2A bodies have flush rewind cranks. They were previously designed to "stick out". This was never a problem with my R2A because the centre axle (the silver part) would turn independently of the outer crank.

See: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=654636

 

[Quinn Porter]

Only newer R2A bodies have flush rewind cranks. They were previously designed to "stick out". This was never a problem with my R2A because the centre axle (the silver part) would turn independently of the outer crank.

See: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=654636

Agreed. My R3A from about three years ago is designed the same way. The crank doesn't turn when you wind the film because it runs into the body.

 

[Steve M.]

I think the shaft must be bent. Otherwise it wouldn't be hitting the body. Nothing to do but open it up. That will give you a chance to see if the film is properly threaded onto the take up spool too. Take the film cannister out and see if anything is bent or otherwise not as it should be. Film is cheap, and you should be able to save most of the roll anyway.

The R2A is a good camera. I had an R3A for years and except for the shutter speed being impossible to read in the viewfinder in bright light and the usual Bessa loud shutter it was dead reliable and metered perfectly.

 

[Tom A]

Also check that the "pin" that anchors the rewind crank is not coming loose. This could be the problem - if the shaft has "crept" out - it could mean that the actual rewind crank is not straight and allows the grip on the crank to jam against the body. On some of the earlier R2's with the knob and crank, the knurled knob on the crank can pull upward (usually caught in the strap) and then jam against the body edge.

 

[Brian Puccio]

Only newer R2A bodies have flush rewind cranks. They were previously designed to "stick out". This was never a problem with my R2A because the centre axle (the silver part) would turn independently of the outer crank.

See: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=654636

Agreed. My R3A from about three years ago is designed the same way. The crank doesn't turn when you wind the film because it runs into the body.

Ah-ha! Not only do I not have gliderbee's rewind, I certainly have one that, as you and Clovis indicate, is designed to stick out.

As I originally posted, it seems like with a design like this, the center axle (what I call the rewind fork in the instruction manual) should rotate inside the body without pulling all this along. And mine doesn't. Things are much more clear now.

I've posted this youtube clip to better explain in case anyone else has this problem.

I think the shaft must be bent. Otherwise it wouldn't be hitting the body. Nothing to do but open it up. That will give you a chance to see if the film is properly threaded onto the take up spool too. Take the film cannister out and see if anything is bent or otherwise not as it should be. Film is cheap, and you should be able to save most of the roll anyway.

Nope, everything is straight. And I can't see anything wrong with the film canisters and can't believe that I'd get a dozen rolls of various types all similarly defective.

The R2A is a good camera. I had an R3A for years and except for the shutter speed being impossible to read in the viewfinder in bright light and the usual Bessa loud shutter it was dead reliable and metered perfectly.

Didn't say it was bad, just that my film won't advance if the rewind crank is down. That's all.

Also check that the "pin" that anchors the rewind crank is not coming loose. This could be the problem - if the shaft has "crept" out - it could mean that the actual rewind crank is not straight and allows the grip on the crank to jam against the body. On some of the earlier R2's with the knob and crank, the knurled knob on the crank can pull upward (usually caught in the strap) and then jam against the body edge.

Tom, you're the best! (And your soft releases and quite nice, too.)

I tightened the tiny silver screw in the center of it all (the one with the tiny red dot on one half) and was able to manipulate the internal parts without causing the exterior parts to spin for the first time, which means I'll be able to advance the film without my rewind knob needing to spin wildly.