BEST Alternatives to PayPal's 6 Month Return Policy ?

[ColSebastianMoran]

eBay continues it's bias towards the buyer. Means that "buy with confidence" is no longer a hollow slogan. Has helped me at times. That's not bad…

But, it's not designed for the peer to peer situation between buyer and seller that often exists here.

USPO Postal Money order… If the seller commits fraud, there really is a postal police who go into action. That's an appropriate amount of protection between peers.

That said, I'll use PayPal and not worry about it when I have good reason to trust the other party (whether buyer or seller). 100% perfect transactions here with RFF members!

 

[splitimageview]

one person's experience with an alternative

http://community.ebay.com/t5/Paymen...re-fast-approaching-the-180-day/td-p/22909483

 

[burninfilm]

If you read that post, it quotes a ProPay "High Risk Sales" policy which does not allow their service to be used. This covers many transactions that a RFF'er would use it for, such as selling vintage rangefinder camera equipment, or selling internationally. Not really much of an alternative with those limitations...

ProPay does not allow you to use its merchant processing service for high risk sales transactions.

• Antiques and vintage items • Art • Automobile parts, used & new • Catering • Collectibles o Coins o Faces, Names and Signatures o Stamps • Cross-border transactions • Electronics • Furniture • IT (Information Technology) Services • Jewelry • Moving companies • Private Investigators • Taxi / Limo services • Tour Operators • Web hosting & web design

 

[Jack Conrad]

Not to mention, ProPay appears to only be applicable to Bronze, Gold and Platinum Power Sellers.

 

[VertovSvilova]

I just checked eBays terms and paypal is required. Other methods and money orders are not allowed except for certain items such as cars.. No outside payment services like google wallet are allowed..

Once eBay and PayPal go through with their divorce, then maybe eBay will be open to other forms of payment like they were in the past. The eBay+PayPal requirement was mainly because they were the same company.

But it appears that they do allow straight credit card payments. Quality Camera has been selling on eBay and does not take PayPal, only direct credit card transactions. One can also sell on eBay with 'local pickup only' and take cash on delivery. Of course, doing that is like using eBay as a Craigslist type of venue.

So maybe eBay will go back to payments as being the choice of the seller since they will no longer own the PayPal revenue. Or maybe require transaction services that they now own (like ProPay which they may end up offering to anybody.) Or maybe they've cut a revenue deal with PayPal and will get a percentage from all eBay sales using PayPal and things will remain the same.

USPS MO's are great for the seller since interstate fraud is a federal thing, and also any USPS MO can be immediately verified and cashed at any PO. The buyer has to be sure to trust the seller, but it still involves the feds if the seller runs off with the funds and doesn't deliver. I used to require a USPS MO in the early eBay days and it always worked fine. But of course it doesn't work for international sales.

But consumers want protection which is understandable. There have been too many shady sellers and it's resulting in new consumer protection laws. And it's not just small sellers but also the big corporations that have caused it; it's the big corporation's fault more than anybody else.

 

[marcr1230]

It's kind of obnoxious on the part of PayPal/eBay
Already the seller pays around 13%
To not be sure you've actually closed the sale for 6 months after?

PayPal and eBay have announce they are splitting from each other
So maybe another pay service will come forth
With better terms for sellers
Personally I will probably continue to use eBay until
Some issue comes up and if it's a hassle or costs me, I'll stip

 

[kxl]

For big ticket items, you can propose using escrow via escrow.com, which is acceptable to ebay. But it involves fees, so it is dependent on whether or not the buyer is willing to pay escrow fees or whether you, as seller, are willing to eat the fees.

 

[archeophoto]

"What are the best alternatives to Paypal that offer both seller and buyer SANE protection both ways?"

What is SANE protection? Is there such a thing? It's in the nature of things that what suits the buyer doesn't suit the seller and vice versa. I think Paypal and Ebay know exactly what they can get away with. Let's face it, they are dominating the market.

To sell vintage camera gear (or everything used for that matter) as a private seller on Ebay has already become a risky business and yet most people do it anyways.

Money orders has become a nightmare as well, as there was so much fraud going on with them. That's why Paypal is so big in the first place. Nowadays you have to wait 10 days for a money order or certified cheque to clear before you can send your item out. I'm sure the buyer loves that...

If I have something camera related to sell, I list it on Kijiji (or Craigslist) first. Now, I'm lucky that I live in the city and there are lot's of potential buyers nearby. If that doesn't work, I list the item on specialized forums, like this one. For me as a seller it would be the best, if the money would be deposited directly to my bank account, like it is done in Europe.

Of course a buyer wouldn't like that as there is "no protection". So how are Europeans doing it? Easy! They didn't establish the "try before you buy" culture in the first place. But I think it's unrealistic to believe we could adopt this model in North America as nobody would accept it.

Maybe Apples new payment system will be better as everything Apple touches seem to turn to gold. But I doubt that it will be better for sellers.

Long term I think there are some solutions to the problem:
1. Local cash deals and the return of the local used camera store and swap meets.
2. Buy only what you really want or need. Do your research before hand, because the "Try it, you can sell it if you don't like it" mentality will go away with those new policies. Because selling will be a PITA. Maybe this will offer a cure for GAS.
3. For online merchants, it's time to drop Paypal altogether and accept credit cards only. But that's not cheap either. If I would have an online business now, I would offer direct bank transfer as an option instead. To encourage direct bank transfers, I would include secure express shipping in the price.

 

[Emile de Leon]

What about Paypal payment sent as a gift only...for a private sale..wouldn't that be better for sellers..?

 

[Out to Lunch]

Drink internationally and buy and sell locally.

 

[Beemermark]

Obviously, if you are a seller this is not good but if you are a buyer it is good. I imagine that there has been a good number of complaints reference sellers. From personal experience I purchased items that stopped working after 2 months, even though they were described as in perfect working condition just serviced. Many items sold should be sold with a one year guarantee.

If you want a 1 year warranty you need to check the manufacturer's warranty and buy new from a regular dealer like Adorama, BHphotovideo, etc. You should not be buying used equipment on eBay.

 

[frank-grumman]

Member on FM is reporting that PP has rescinded that policy. I tried to confirm it by going to the PP site and had no luck. 😀

here is his post: From PayPal current website:

"Transactions older than 45 days cannot be disputed but should still be reported. PayPal tracks seller performance trends in the event we need to take action to protect other buyers."

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1323041/1#lastmessage

 

[nobbylon]

Obviously, if you are a seller this is not good but if you are a buyer it is good. I imagine that there has been a good number of complaints reference sellers. From personal experience I purchased items that stopped working after 2 months, even though they were described as in perfect working condition just serviced. Many items sold should be sold with a one year guarantee.

Buy from a shop and get a warranty but pay higher prices!
I'm always amazed at people who ask me for a return policy. Yes sure, use it, figure out you don't like it and ask paypal for a refund!
I've never trusted paypal and never will. For high end items it's got to be wire transfer or cash in person.
Paypal as a gift is the only way to receive payment safely now. This way they can't just help themselves to your money.
I've recently refused some sales due to buyers trying to dictate terms and conditions to me and I have to politely remind them that I'm under no obligation to sell to them.

 

[frank-grumman]

Except that PP gift for goods violates PP TOS and leaves it an open question if there is any recourse should the deal go South.

 

[cz23]

What about Paypal payment sent as a gift only...for a private sale..wouldn't that be better for sellers..?

Bad idea. If you send money as a gift or goods as a gift, the other party has no obligation to send the goods or funds and you have no recourse. You sent them a gift, after all.

 

[nobbylon]

Bad idea. If you send money as a gift or goods as a gift, the other party has no obligation to send the goods or funds and you have no recourse. You sent them a gift, after all.

From a sellers POV it's the only way to protect yourself now.
Why would you send goods as a gift? We are talking about getting paid for an item here and I don't know anyone who would send stuff without getting paid first.

 

[nobbylon]

Except that PP gift for goods violates PP TOS and leaves it an open question if there is any recourse should the deal go South.

It may well do but it protects me as a seller from chargebacks with an unreasonable buyer. Like I said in my previous post, if buyers want complete protection and peace of mind? then buy from a shop and get a warranty. Trading on forums is a lot to do with trust and a feedback system. If an item is described well then there should be no problems.
On a forum sale here I trust my fellow members. I stopped selling on ebay a long time ago because there was no trust in the system.

 

[Turtle]

Knock 10% off your ebay price and its amazing how readily camera goods sell on the right forums.

... as if there weren't enough good reasons not to sell on ebay.

 

[nobbylon]

I prefer a Money Order or Personal Check, but I will accept Paypal Gifts for high end gear.

If someone can find what I have for sale at a store that offers a warranty and refunds, I always suggest they buy there. 🙂

well said..........

 

[kshapero]

If something stops working after two months it's the product that's at fault, not the seller. If John Smith sells his used camera on the internet he shouldn't have to offer a guarantee beyond when you get it it will work. That's what a business like KEH or Adorama is for. There's a reason why buying from a used dealer is more expensive than some guy on the internet.

I find KEH usually cheaper than the prices on Ebay, except on Chinese made accessories.