Best Introduction to Nikon RF? S2? R2S?

[brobbins]

All of the talk on this forum about the drop in prices of Nikon RFs has made meinterested in acquiring one. What would you recommend for someone starting to use a Nikon RF system? A Voigtlander R2S? A Nikon S2? It appears the S3's and SP's may have dimmer rangefinders but are otherwise more modern, and also much more expensive. I would probably want to eventually have a 25mm or 28mm, a 50mm and an 85mm lens.

 

[furcafe]

The CV R2S is obviously the most modern, w/built-in meter, etc. If you can live w/a VF built around the 50mm field of view, you can't lose w/the S2, which also happens to be the most inexpensive of the Nikon RFs.

 

[VinceC]

S3s have very bright viewfinders. But they have a built-in tendency to make you want to get 35 and 105mm lenses. I never like 35mm lenses on SLRs. The 35mm frames on the S3 convinced me to get a lens to fill the vacuum, and I've since embraced that focal length for RFs. Same with the 105. Never used it much in SLR but much more often in RF because of the frameline.

A drawback of the RS2 is that it's very short baselength makes it difficult to focus the excellent Nikkor 85/2. The 50/1.4 can't be that easy, either, on an R2S.

S2 is a good introduction. I bought one, really liked the system, then got an S3 and then an SP.

 

[NIKON KIU]

Here is the difference pricewise:
S2 plus 5cm $400-$500
S3 plus 5cm $900-$1200
Sp plus 5cm $1200-$1500
Bessa R2s plus 50mm f3.5 heliar $749




Kiu

 

[VinceC]

Seems to me, if you've got a Bessa R2S with 50/3.5 Heliar, you don't really have a Nikon kit. You've got a Bessa kit with a Nikon mount.

 

[brobbins]

Thanks for all of your responses.

Vince, I agree with your comment about the R2S. If I am going to get a Nikon RF I should experience a real Nikon RF.

Kiu, are the prices you list auction prices at the auction site?

Finally, I would like a 25 or 28mm lens for whatever camera I buy. Are the old Nikkors of these focal lengths comparable in resolution (if not contrast) to the newer CV lenses? (I assume that if I buy a vintage lens it will be the 28 since I believe the 25 is rare and expensive.)

 

[Meleica]

Here's my Nikon RF Lens Guide

http://members.aol.com/dcolucci/nik.htm

-Dan

 

[NIKON KIU]

Kiu, are the prices you list auction prices at the auction site?

Finally, I would like a 25 or 28mm lens for whatever camera I buy. Are the old Nikkors of these focal lengths comparable in resolution (if not contrast) to the newer CV lenses? (I assume that if I buy a vintage lens it will be the 28 since I believe the 25 is rare and expensive.)

I The prices I mentioned are derived from not only ebay but internet sites such as RFF,NHS,Yahoo Japan,KEH.com....
Less than a month ago a new member here on RFF bought a Nikon S2 with lens, out of ebay for under $400!! Tell them Migtex.

If you want a 25 or a 28,you are better off going the CV path, the 2.5cm Nikkor is very expensive and the 2.8cm in EXC+ condition still tends to do $400- $500. Considering the CV lens is offered at $299 and shipping is free this month,it's a no brainer.

Kiu

 

[VinceC]

I've seen 2.8cm f/3.5 lenses go for $250 to $400 or so. I bought a black barrel one last year in near mint condition for about $350. The chrome barrel versions sell for less but weigh a lot more.

Cameraquest is selling 28/3.5 VC lenses for $299, without a finder. I'm sure the quality will be top-notch, but I also love the original Nikkor from the 1950s. My two standard lenses are the 1950s Nikkor 2.8cm/3.5 and the Millenneum 50/1.4.

The Nikkor 2.8cm/3.5 is extremely sharp. It does vignette with light falloff in the corners wide open (and I tend to shoot a 3.5 lens wide open most of the time). Probably the corners aren't as sharp as they could be. So the modern CV lens would evenly illuminated with more even sharpness.

The CV 25/4 is also a wonderful lens, and it comes with its own excellent finder.

Here are some recent examples of the Nikkor 2.8cm f/3.5.

 

[jonmanjiro]

All of the talk on this forum about the drop in prices of Nikon RFs has made meinterested in acquiring one. What would you recommend for someone starting to use a Nikon RF system? A Voigtlander R2S? A Nikon S2? It appears the S3's and SP's may have dimmer rangefinders but are otherwise more modern, and also much more expensive. I would probably want to eventually have a 25mm or 28mm, a 50mm and an 85mm lens.

I was probably just unlucky and got the lemon in the batch, but I had a bad experience with an R2S just recently. I purchased it new, and when loading film into it for the first time I tried to advance the film with the advance lever, but the feeling was extremely rough like the film was catching on something. Advancing the lever without film in the camera was much smoother. Thinking I hadn't correctly inserted the film into the takeup spool, I pushed the rewind button on the bottom plate and rewound the film to try again. I took out the film, reinserted it, closed the camera and then tried to advance the film again. This time the shutter locked solid. I ended up returning the camera. I could have sent it off for repair, but opted for a full refund instead.

R2S owners, please defend your cameras now!

 

[brobbins]

Thanks for all your comments and suggestions. I think it makes sense to try out an S2 to see if I like the Nikon RF system before investing in a more expensive camera. Is there any difference between the "black dial" and "chrome dial" versions other than aesthetics (and relative rarity). The "black dial" ones that I have seen offered seem to sell for more than the "chrome dial" versions.

 

[VinceC]

No difference except that black dial is a bit easier to read in a hurry. I think the late chrome dials and all black dials have some kind of governor in the flash sync that won't let the x-sync fire unless the shutter is cocked, whereas earlier ones fire the flash with the shutter button even if shutter is not cocked.

 

[VinceC]

The CV minifinder (28 and 35 framelines) turns an S2 into a great camera for wide-angle lenses. It's better (larger) than the built-in minifinder on the Nikon SP.

 

[migtex]

Kiu-San,
Glad my wife does not read this forum (I do hope not) or I have been fried already!
In fact when she gives a glance to my monitor and see the 18% gray from RFF or the Black/orange of Nikonians... she just look straight in my eyes with that look ,
And yes I have been fortunate with an S2 (still in customs I believe) recently.. 3 something with shipping!

Brobbins
And if you have enough $$$ it may be worth to lookk.. 160088743257
or get Keh, they got some too.
Be advise... it's a roller coaster once you started... there is no turning back.. only RIP will save your soul:angel:... and maybe not even that! You have been warned!:bang:

Now... go for it, make you life miserable with a smile!

PS Edit and you should try the CV 21mm/4 that is the one!

 

[NIKON KIU]

I've seen 2.8cm f/3.5 lenses go for $250 to $400 or so. I bought a black barrel one last year in near mint condition for about $350. The chrome barrel versions sell for less but weigh a lot more.

Here are some recent examples of the Nikkor 2.8cm f/3.5.

Vince you are a better man than I am:angel:



I have been tracking black 2.8cm 3.5 prices, here is one just sold on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Nikon-Rangefind...ryZ15234QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

And here is a chrome one that got sniped by a re-seller, probably on his site right now:
http://cgi.ebay.com/MINT-Nikon-W-Ni...ryZ30039QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


There is one on ebay as we speak...not as clean as the one sold by Adorama but still 3 days left in the auction.


Kiu

 

[VinceC]

Prices must have trickled back up. I bought it a year ago in January '06, before RFF sparked such renewed interest in Nikons. Several black ones went in December and January and February '06 in the $400 range. I think I paid about $385.

I have a "snipe-proof" way of dealing with EBay. I study the item, decide the absolute most I'm willing to pay for it, bid that amount, then check back after the auction to see if I won. If someone did outbid me by $5 or $10, then so be it. They found the most I was willing to pay and topped it.

EDIT: I just perused your two lines. Mine is clean but with no caps or cases. Start throwing in caps, cases and original filters, and you're competing with collectors. I was looking for a daily user lens.

 

[jsuominen]

R2S owners, please defend your cameras now!

I haven't experienced those problems with my Bessa R2S. R2S has also a very bright viewfinder, but I know that it has a short baselength. Although I have managed to shoot also wide open and close focus shots with my vintage Nikkor-S.C 5cm/1.4 lens and Bessa R2S.

Some samples here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jsuominen/318719170/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jsuominen/339689555/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jsuominen/328329532/

And here are more shots, if you are interested.

 

[Tom A]

I was probably just unlucky and got the lemon in the batch, but I had a bad experience with an R2S just recently. I purchased it new, and when loading film into it for the first time I tried to advance the film with the advance lever, but the feeling was extremely rough like the film was catching on something. Advancing the lever without film in the camera was much smoother. Thinking I hadn't correctly inserted the film into the takeup spool, I pushed the rewind button on the bottom plate and rewound the film to try again. I took out the film, reinserted it, closed the camera and then tried to advance the film again. This time the shutter locked solid. I ended up returning the camera. I could have sent it off for repair, but opted for a full refund instead.

R2S owners, please defend your cameras now!

I find that the Bessa's occasionally needs a lttle help when ypu load film. Once you got the film on the take-up spool, just "jiggle" the sprocket wheel slightly and it will unlock. After that they work fine. My Bessa R2S is typical in that respect and so is one of my Bessa L's. I keep forgetting to ask what causes this everytime I go to Japan!
As a starter Nikon Rf, the S2 is the best. They are reasonably cheap and usually come with the lens. Just add the CV 28 and maybe a 85/2 or even better the 85/3,5 Apo-Lanthar. The 85/2 is heavy and although good, the 85/3,5 is better!
I had the 28/3,5 Nikkor as well as the 25/4 Nikkor. I found that the VC lenses in that focal length were much better. The 28 is OK but I found the 25 very sensitive to flare and the aperture conrol was abysmal!
If you want a truly vintage look, try to find the 28f8 Tessar. Much more fun and a sharp lens. Huge depth of field if you stop it down to f32 ( and also some serious vignetting). I advice moving to a sunny climat though. F8 is a bit limiting and best performance is around f11/f16.

 

[brobbins]

Thank you all for the advice. I think I will look for an inexpensive Nikon S2 and see if I like the system. I received an offer that would let me buy a Nikon S3 2000 and accompanying Nikon Millenium 50mm f/1.4 lens for $1650, which may be a good deal, but is much more than I want to spend. In any event, I like the idea of having a camera with a history more than a remake of an historic camera. I have heard very good things about the new 50mm lens, however, and if I like the system would hope to acquire one of the new lenses some day.

 

[VinceC]

That's a very good price on an S3-2000. It's more than just a reproduction. It is an opportunity to own a brand new high-quality camera with a historic pedigree.