Best night-time combo : RF vs MF vs SLR

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I currently have a Nikon F65 and D70 which I use with my 50mm f/1.4 for night shots. Its good, but just not enough for moving subjects in really low light.

So Im looking for a single purpose camera, just for night time shooting. Since Im not a brand snob, the Voigtlander Bessa 2A w/35mm f/1.2 is at the top of my list.

Is this going to satisfy me? Or will i still feel like Im always on the edge of getting sharp shots. Will I notice a definate improvement over my Nikon in focussing and performance, or should I just buy a 35mm f/1.4 for my Nikon.

The other option is to look at MF and get something like a Mamiya 645E w/80 f/1.9 and push the fillm to 12800 (the large neg still giving the resolution suitable for 8x10).

Daniel.
 
The rangefinder type of camera excells in low light situations. You could also consider the Hexar AF if the 35mm f2 lens is fast enough. It can auto-focus in pitch black conditions.
 
Unregistered said:
I currently have a Nikon F65 and D70 which I use with my 50mm f/1.4 for night shots. Its good, but just not enough for moving subjects in really low light.
Daniel.
Click to expand...

The R2a and 35/1.2 would indeed be great for low-light static subjects, but I note you mention moving subjects there, which is likely to be more of a problem. For that you probably just need better low-light autofocus performance. Now everyone is buying D70s you could get an F90x (is that called N90x in the states?) for half the price of an R2a, and they are tough and really fast.

Not very on-topic here though 😱 ; of course I just stick to the R2 and look for things that don't move much to shoot at night.

Tom
 
If you shoot MOVING subjects, first you need to decide what the minimum shutter speed can be. If it is 1/125" the benefits of a rangefinder will be minimal. The difference of an f1.2 versus f1.4 is less than half a stop. If the shutter speed you need is in the 1/15" (or less) area, the f1.2 and the rangefinder (lack of mirror) will help. Do not forget that a wider lens will have a narrower field in focus, so your rangefinder must be capable of focusing fast and accurately in low light. Personaly, for moving subjects I would stick with my SLR and high ASA/ISO film.
 
I agree with Tom that "moving subjects in really low light." are probably not any better with a manual focus rangefinder. What exactly do you mean by "It's good, but just not enough"? Enough of what? If it is because of blurry photos maybe it is not the auto focus on the two AF cameras that you have but possibly you are unable to handhold at the shutter speeds that you are using. For a 50mm lens you should generally not use a shutter speed of less than 1/50 sec and even then there is no guarnatee of success. Any good 800 speed 35mm print film should give good 8x10 prints.

Bob
 
Consider using an ultra high speed film or digital SLR body in the ISO 1600-3200 Range. Noise will be messy, but you should be able to stop action.
 
And to add to the others' good advice, the Mamiya 645 is the worst camera for your situation: pushing the film to extreme speed may be lead to less problems with grain with MF film, but it wont help at all with the loss of shadow detail at those speeds (that's the same with MF and 35mm film...). Also, you'll have to stop down 1 to 2 stops more with MF for similar DOF; and the larger mirror and focal plane shutter of an MF SLR will induce vibrations, forcing you to use faster speeds than when using a 35mm camera.
BTW, what problems with moving subjectdo you have? Focussing on them, or motion blur in your pics? If it's a focussing-related problem, the rangefinder might help a bit (but not much - on the one hand, a RF is easier to focus in low light than an SLR, on the other hand, with moving subjects you'll have to constantly change between focussing and composing (unless you want the subject ead-center in your picture, since that's where the focussing patch is).
I haven't used one myself, but a Hexar AF might indeed be a good choice - and lots of TMax 3200 (and some Calbe A49, which gets the most out of this film, IMHO).

Roman
 
Actually, a wide-angle lens will have a deeper DoF. That said, I agree that an RF will not necessarily be better for everyone for focusing quickly & accurately in low light. I find it quicker & more accurate than a manual focus SLR (@ least the ancient ones I use), but others may have different skill sets. My understanding is that modern autofocus SLRs are plenty fast; perhaps you just need a Nikon body w/a better VF?

dnk512 said:
Do not forget that a wider lens will have a narrower field in focus, so your rangefinder must be capable of focusing fast and accurately in low light. Personaly, for moving subjects I would stick with my SLR and high ASA/ISO film.
Click to expand...
 
What you really want for night time photos is a 4x5 Speed or Crown Graphic with a #2773 Flash adapter and a 5" reflector with a #25 Flash Bulb. Set your shutter at 1/25 of a second and lens at f22. Pre-set your focus at eight feet. Every thing from 5 1/2 feet to 15 feet will be in focus. This is for an 135mm Optar lens which is slightly wide angle in 4x5. The flash bulb will stop motion so subject blur from their movement will be negated.

Wayne
 
Wayne R. Scott said:
The flash bulb will stop motion so subject blur from their movement will be negated.

Wayne
Click to expand...

Esp. after the flashbulb has been fired - everybody will be stunned stiff...
😉
Roman
 
Roman said:
Esp. after the flashbulb has been fired - everybody will be stunned stiff...
😉
Roman
Click to expand...

Yeah, that is why you should use a Graphmatic so you can get off a second shot in about 4 seconds for that "Deer in the Headlights" look from every one there. 😛

Wayne
 
Wayne R. Scott said:
What you really want for night time photos is a 4x5 Speed or Crown Graphic with a #2773 Flash adapter and a 5" reflector with a #25 Flash Bulb. Set your shutter at 1/25 of a second and lens at f22. Pre-set your focus at eight feet. Every thing from 5 1/2 feet to 15 feet will be in focus. This is for an 135mm Optar lens which is slightly wide angle in 4x5. The flash bulb will stop motion so subject blur from their movement will be negated.

Wayne
Click to expand...

Or better yet an SM class F gasbulb. They scare the hell out of me and I'm on the cold side! ;^D
 
Or better yet an SM class F gasbulb. They scare the hell out of me and I'm on the cold side! ;^D


Then I would have to switch to my 7" reflector and you can light up an entire football field!!! They scare me too, I have visions of carrying a couple of them in a pants pocket and having one of them set off by static electricity starting a chain reaction of bulbs flashing. It gives a new meaning to Hot Pants. 🙂

Wayne
 
The combination of high speed lenses and good fast films makes 35mm a better choice than medium format for dim active interiors. I'd not try to go beyond the ISO 1250-1600 region as the top limit of the films' real speeds despite box claims.

Still, I've had very good results from 645 format Bronica and Fuji RF cams with quiet vibration-free leaf shutters in business interiors, using EI 500 color with f/4 lenses wide open and shutter speeds in the 1/15 to 1/60 range. I'm often out of luck with EI 250 and would love f/2.8, but in MF that's getting pretty thin on DoF. And with Tri-X at 1250 in Diafine, I'm in great shape here even at f/4.
 
I had pretty good luck over the weekend using my Canonet shooting Kodak P3200 @ 6400 in a fairly dark bar. I was metering 1/60 and 1/125 (mostly) at f2. The focusing got pretty bad as I drank more. Prett grainy and contrasty, but I was expecting that.. and I kind of like the look.
 
Sorry all. By "wider" I was reffering to larger aperture as I was trying to compare the f1.2 to f1.4, both 35mm lenses.
 
The reason I mentioned moving subjects, was so that people didn't suggest using a tripod, i.e. not a static scene at night. Im trying to get to about 1/50 second ideal, as this is almost generally enough to freeze peoples movement.

I've been using Delta and TMAX 3200 with my F65 @ 1.4, but its not quite enough.. often I only get 1/15 second, flickering to 1/20. As for auto-focus, it doesnt work in low light well enough without it using the focus light which blinds everyone and ruins any natural facial expressions and alerts people your about to take their photo, and the finder isnt bright enough to focus accurately (not to mention their no split focus thingo).

So Im thinking that 35mm @ 1.2 will have a tad more DOF that 50mm @ 1.4 and maybe just sneak me up to 1/30 in the darkest moments, which with a rangefinder and 35mm lens should get a high proportion of sharp shots.

After reading Erwins (I think thats right) review of the 35mm, he seemed to say it was pretty fuzzy wide open. Not sure how critical he was being and if it would make a big difference when shooting ISO 3200 film.

Daniel.
 
snaggs said:
After reading Erwins (I think thats right) review of the 35mm, he seemed to say it was pretty fuzzy wide open. Not sure how critical he was being and if it would make a big difference when shooting ISO 3200 film.

Daniel.
Click to expand...

Yes; I interpreted that bit at the end of the review about practical use to be a sort of acknowledgement of the fact that his kind of testing looks at extremely fine distinctions in performance at the edge of recordability on film with a tripod, and that in the circumstances where the lens would be useful; low light, slower speeds, hand held, fast film etc, you wouldn't have any cause for complaint.

That is certainly what many others have reported; or better.

Tom
 
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